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> Do the police not crack down and jail people, sending a message that this is not to be tolerated? Is this a situation like Berkeley 2017, or the American Sout

by vidoc 10y ago

> Do the police not crack down and jail people, sending a message that this is not to be tolerated? Is this a situation like Berkeley 2017, or the American South around Jim Crow, where the rioters/terrorists are implicitly sanctioned by the government? There's actually a branch of law enforcement named CRSs dedicated at this, they do make arrests sometimes, but seldomly as they usually favor the baton usage, which is an art they are very well known for. Generally speaking, each protest is a war of opinion involving 3 participants: the government, the protesters, and the rest of the population. The latter is key as the way its sympathy swings usually designates the winner. It's usually an equation including the level of justification claimed by the protesters, how proportionate the law enforcement usage of force was, and of course the level of violence used by the protesters. e.g: - Too violent a crackdown makes the government look bad - Destructions of public infrastructures, or vicious display of violence for the other side. Infiltration with unidentifiable agent provocateurs is typical.

yummyfajitas 10y ago
Terrorism as performance art, successfully gaining the sympathies of the population (provided it isn't too extreme) and driving the government to give the terrorists what they want? This is the kind of thing I'd expect in Yemen or Somalia, not western Europe. I think I'm shocked mainly because I never viewed the cultural differences between the US and Europe as being this large. Admittedly I've only been to France once; I suspect in the UK or Netherlands (places I'm more familiar with) attitudes would be a lot closer to US.
- vidoc 10y ago
  > Terrorism as performance art, successfully gaining the sympathies of the population (provided it isn't too extreme) and driving the government to give the terrorists what they want? While the term 'terrorist' seems a bit connoted to me, there is indeed a sort of bargain/blackmail dynamic in most protests and funnily the french population routinely describes itself 'hostage' when the situation leads to disturbance of public services or infrastructures. > This is the kind of thing I'd expect in Yemen or Somalia, not western Europe. Right, peaceful protesting in countries at war is probably not too frequent. Although in the case of Somalia, protests must be kind of interesting since there is essentially no government. >I suspect in the UK or Netherlands (places I'm more familiar with) attitudes would be a lot closer to US. Absolutely, for tons of cultural and social reasons. Although I observe that all the countries you listed did at times have violent rioting as well.
  - yummyfajitas 10y ago
    According to the dictionary, terrorists are people who engage in premeditated violence to achieve political ends. I know that the media doesn't usually use the term to describe left wing white people [1], but I prefer to use the same term regardless of the ideology or ethnicity of the terrorist. [1] My favorite euphemism comes from TechCrunch: "illegal armed groups". https://techcrunch.com/2016/03/24/ubers-colombian-speed-bumps/ https://techcrunch.com/2016/03/24/ubers-colombian-speed-bump...
    - vidoc 10y ago
      > According to the dictionary, terrorists are people who engage in premeditated violence to achieve political ends. Eh, good dictionaries usually have more than just a literal section for definitions, something that covers the connotative meaning and it can actually be useful sometimes :P
      - yummyfajitas 10y ago
        I'm aware that "terrorist" often connotes "islamic terrorist". I'm deliberately pushing against this connotation - I don't think white people should get a pass when they engage in similar actions.
        vidoc 10y ago
        I think I see your point more clearly now. It's probably a matter of interpretation as the connotation I had in mind wasn't the one your proposed, but the idea we tend to imagine any form of terrorism as exercising violence on innocent humans usually called victims. In this particular case, I was thinking it didn't legitimate appropriate use of the term since we are essentially talking burnt cars and beaten up cops.
- jessaustin 10y ago
  Terrorism as performance art... Is it ever anything else? Even so, it's stretching a bit to call these protests "terrorism". I was proud of USA, when I was working overseas in late 2000, and all my friends were expecting riots to break out over the close election, and none ever did...

by vidoc 10y ago

yummyfajitas 10y ago

Terrorism as performance art, successfully gaining the sympathies of the population (provided it isn't too extreme) and driving the government to give the terrorists what they want? This is the kind of thing I'd expect in Yemen or Somalia, not western Europe. I think I'm shocked mainly because I never viewed the cultural differences between the US and Europe as being this large. Admittedly I've only been to France once; I suspect in the UK or Netherlands (places I'm more familiar with) attitudes would be a lot closer to US.

vidoc 10y ago
> Terrorism as performance art, successfully gaining the sympathies of the population (provided it isn't too extreme) and driving the government to give the terrorists what they want? While the term 'terrorist' seems a bit connoted to me, there is indeed a sort of bargain/blackmail dynamic in most protests and funnily the french population routinely describes itself 'hostage' when the situation leads to disturbance of public services or infrastructures. > This is the kind of thing I'd expect in Yemen or Somalia, not western Europe. Right, peaceful protesting in countries at war is probably not too frequent. Although in the case of Somalia, protests must be kind of interesting since there is essentially no government. >I suspect in the UK or Netherlands (places I'm more familiar with) attitudes would be a lot closer to US. Absolutely, for tons of cultural and social reasons. Although I observe that all the countries you listed did at times have violent rioting as well.
- yummyfajitas 10y ago
  According to the dictionary, terrorists are people who engage in premeditated violence to achieve political ends. I know that the media doesn't usually use the term to describe left wing white people [1], but I prefer to use the same term regardless of the ideology or ethnicity of the terrorist. [1] My favorite euphemism comes from TechCrunch: "illegal armed groups". https://techcrunch.com/2016/03/24/ubers-colombian-speed-bumps/ https://techcrunch.com/2016/03/24/ubers-colombian-speed-bump...
  - vidoc 10y ago
    > According to the dictionary, terrorists are people who engage in premeditated violence to achieve political ends. Eh, good dictionaries usually have more than just a literal section for definitions, something that covers the connotative meaning and it can actually be useful sometimes :P
    - yummyfajitas 10y ago
      I'm aware that "terrorist" often connotes "islamic terrorist". I'm deliberately pushing against this connotation - I don't think white people should get a pass when they engage in similar actions.
      - vidoc 10y ago
        I think I see your point more clearly now. It's probably a matter of interpretation as the connotation I had in mind wasn't the one your proposed, but the idea we tend to imagine any form of terrorism as exercising violence on innocent humans usually called victims. In this particular case, I was thinking it didn't legitimate appropriate use of the term since we are essentially talking burnt cars and beaten up cops.
jessaustin 10y ago
Terrorism as performance art... Is it ever anything else? Even so, it's stretching a bit to call these protests "terrorism". I was proud of USA, when I was working overseas in late 2000, and all my friends were expecting riots to break out over the close election, and none ever did...