4 ms·

>> someone complaining that their local beach is full of trash when they themselves never bothered to help clean it Here you're shouting others down by trying

>> someone complaining that their local beach is full of trash when they themselves never bothered to help clean it Here you're shouting others down by trying to shame them. Please don't do that. Being unwilling or incapable of cleaning up the messes others make does not disqualify one from criticizing the mess makers.

cooper12 10y ago
My point with the example was to show that Wikipedia is a public resource. It's not "that other guy's" responsibility to fix it. Every editor is a volunteer. If you have the energy to complain about a public resource that you benefit from for free, that is maintained by volunteers, you absolutely should be shamed for not chipping in yourself and instead writing about it elsewhere. As the famous line goes: "patches welcome".
- tnone 10y ago
  Except that WP has its own arcane laws and policies used to great effect by regulars to ensure no outside voice is given a say in truly contentious articles. e.g. If you try to get involved, you are a "single purpose account". If you contest the veracity of a source, it turns into a meta debate where you are expected to provide an alternative view that is nevertheless considered a reliable source by everyone there who thinks otherwise. It's a trap, because it ensures the only people who direct it are the ones who also have time to get fill the site with unimportant trivia and camp out. Unsurprisingly, anything to do with the current culture war is a lost cause.
- cnnsucks 10y ago
  >> "patches welcome" Here we are in a topic that actually documents the hostility people encounter when participating in Wikipedia, a topic that provides overwhelming anecdotal evidence among the comments that people are being actively discouraged from contributing to Wikipedia by hostile admins and topic campers (something I have personally experienced) and you pretend the actual problem is lazyness. You deserved your downmod.

cooper12 10y ago

My point with the example was to show that Wikipedia is a public resource. It's not "that other guy's" responsibility to fix it. Every editor is a volunteer. If you have the energy to complain about a public resource that you benefit from for free, that is maintained by volunteers, you absolutely should be shamed for not chipping in yourself and instead writing about it elsewhere. As the famous line goes: "patches welcome".

tnone 10y ago
Except that WP has its own arcane laws and policies used to great effect by regulars to ensure no outside voice is given a say in truly contentious articles. e.g. If you try to get involved, you are a "single purpose account". If you contest the veracity of a source, it turns into a meta debate where you are expected to provide an alternative view that is nevertheless considered a reliable source by everyone there who thinks otherwise. It's a trap, because it ensures the only people who direct it are the ones who also have time to get fill the site with unimportant trivia and camp out. Unsurprisingly, anything to do with the current culture war is a lost cause.
cnnsucks 10y ago
>> "patches welcome" Here we are in a topic that actually documents the hostility people encounter when participating in Wikipedia, a topic that provides overwhelming anecdotal evidence among the comments that people are being actively discouraged from contributing to Wikipedia by hostile admins and topic campers (something I have personally experienced) and you pretend the actual problem is lazyness. You deserved your downmod.