4 ms·

I think we should start removing those regulations that require large parking lots for new construction. It's a little forward-thinking, but if the next shoppin

by marcc 10y ago

I think we should start removing those regulations that require large parking lots for new construction. It's a little forward-thinking, but if the next shopping center/strip mall/whatever was built only with pickup/dropoff spots and not park-while-you-shop spots, that would both encourage people to ride share today and also build for the future.

ghaff 10y ago
It would most likely result in people simply avoiding the next shopping center/strip mall/whatever because it's such a hassle to go there. Just as I rarely go to downtown areas today where parking is a hassle.
- JBReefer 10y ago
  Ah yes, this of course is why urban cores nationwide are so cheap and empty! Honestly though, this is your experience and nearly decade of car-hostile planning has paid dividends in cities across the country, even if it doesn't work for all use cases. The suburbs and car-centered world only work in a single use case.
- calvano915 10y ago
  Las Vegas casinos have started charging for parking after decades of being known for not doing so. This occurred after the newest large projects were built without large/any parking to accommodate drivers visiting those projects. I cannot speak for the impacts on locals visiting the Strip as this is still a new thing, but I do know that: - The casinos are making an additional $7+/day from every vehicle parking on their properties (those who haven't found a way to get free parking, including being on a higher than lowest gaming tier). - MGM Resorts started the trend, and within months Wynn and Caesars followed suit. The increased revenue in MGM's case was to fund an additional paid parking garage. - All future projects will probably follow suit and limit the amount of spaces. Throughout all of this, the only big improvement in public transit discussed has been some kind of rail option going down the Strip in the future. Otherwise, it seems to be that locals will pay more by either paying to park or using ride hailing/taxis. In other words, not necessarily moving us forward in transit efficiency and additional revenue to the benefit of a few companies.
  - ghaff 10y ago
    This caught me by surprise the last time I was in Vegas for an event although, as it turned out, my rate included parking. I don't know enough about Las Vegas dynamics to know all the rationale behind this. I do know that gaming has dropped percentage-wise as a revenue source. I imagine the impact on visitors isn't that great. I know I won't rent a car unless I'm going outside of the city and it's just cheaper/easier to keep it while I'm staying on the strip. For locals, I imagine it will make some pay more and some switch to off-strip casinos but the higher gaming tiers still get comped anyway. ADDED: I've been told that one of the issues was increased freeloading by people going away on trips and parking at strip hotels, especially Mandalay Bay but I'm not sure how much to credit that given other solutions that don't involve charging everyone for parking.
grok2 10y ago
What about the businesses themselves in these malls/centers...would they survive the transition? In can't be just the design of the mall that is considered, but the entire area around the mall....everything should work together.
- marcc 10y ago
  Absolutely the entire area should be thought about. Removing the regulation to require a parking lot doesn't seem harmful today. I'm not advocating a restriction or a tax on parking lots here, just removing the requirement that every new construction have a certain number of parking spots.
  - tr1ck5t3r 10y ago
    Yet nobody considers the possibility of upgrading the way the financial system works in particular how money is created and disposed of, which is restricting our ability to innovate on a grand scale. At the moment only major investors have this ability, yet are they the best decision makers to say what project gets funding just because they can make money in order to reinvest? If Govt's wanted to drive standards properly, how about keeping cars below a certain weight as weight takes energy to move, that would help keep emissions down globally as the number of vehicles on the road continue to increase. How about cars have to be no bigger than XYZ dimensions? A 1930's UK house with a garage couldn't even house todays Mini such is the increase in vehicle size, fair enough humans have got bigger and many roads in Europe were designed to not only skirt landowners boundaries which is why some countryside roads have many twists and turns, but are not always that wide either. Whilst electric vehicles can move emissions from the road to the power station, the electrical grid still loses power whilst increasing demand on the grid not always at the times planners hope for, and whilst cars can reduce emissions with things like stop start technology, intelligent town planning including co-ordinated city wide traffic lights and designated vehicle routes to handle rush hours would also greatly reduce vehicle emissions and congestion. Lets face it with our smart phone trackers, if an agreed standard was in place you could remove a lot of congestions from towns & cities simply by ignoring the speed limits with multi lane roads and other restrictions that road signs that currently hinder traffic flow.
amyjess 10y ago
And then nearby residents sue the city and the developer for encouraging customers to park on their residential streets. So, in Dallas, the parking requirements for restaurants depend on the amount of seating the restaurant has. A few restaurants got around that by building giant patios with several times the seating as inside, because the regulation doesn't consider outside seating as seating. Residents complained about people parking on their streets and blocking their driveways, and they threatened massive lawsuits. The city council caved and passed a new regulation counting outdoor seating as seating, with no grandfather clause. Now these restaurants have to either build massive parking garages or close their doors.
- xapata 10y ago
  Ugh. Just enforce no parking in residential areas without the appropriate sticker, like most big cities do.
  - freehunter 10y ago
    Then when grandma comes to visit, she gets a parking ticket because she didn't get the right permit? No, the better option is for shopping centers to have enough parking for the customers they anticipate having. Maybe giant parking lots suck, but a business shouldn't be able to destroy a residential neighborhood like that. I've lived in plenty of places where the stores were above the parking garages, and no one from the street could tell there was any parking at all. That's always an option.
    - xapata 10y ago
      > comes to visit ... gets a parking ticket Many neighborhoods that enforce parking permits have a card you can give your guests. Alternately, there may be paid parking nearby. > business shouldn't be able to destroy a residential neighborhood like that. Indeed, but I'd rather our laws and enforcement target the harm (non-residents taking your parking spot) and allow the nearby business to decide whether to offer parking or not. I've lived in and visited many large cities. All my favorite neighborhoods have solved this problem and for the most part the businesses chose to have very little parking, if any.
ArkyBeagle 10y ago
I worked in Montreal for a while. It has a fully self-sufficient downtown, and world class public transport. But if you drove to a WalMart in a suburb, there would be 20 checkers open with ten or twenty people queued up for each.
- xapata 10y ago
  Walmart is cheap and doesn't have locations in the city. Target will occasionally pick a city site and not bother with parking.

by marcc 10y ago

ghaff 10y ago

It would most likely result in people simply avoiding the next shopping center/strip mall/whatever because it's such a hassle to go there. Just as I rarely go to downtown areas today where parking is a hassle.

JBReefer 10y ago
Ah yes, this of course is why urban cores nationwide are so cheap and empty! Honestly though, this is your experience and nearly decade of car-hostile planning has paid dividends in cities across the country, even if it doesn't work for all use cases. The suburbs and car-centered world only work in a single use case.
calvano915 10y ago
Las Vegas casinos have started charging for parking after decades of being known for not doing so. This occurred after the newest large projects were built without large/any parking to accommodate drivers visiting those projects. I cannot speak for the impacts on locals visiting the Strip as this is still a new thing, but I do know that: - The casinos are making an additional $7+/day from every vehicle parking on their properties (those who haven't found a way to get free parking, including being on a higher than lowest gaming tier). - MGM Resorts started the trend, and within months Wynn and Caesars followed suit. The increased revenue in MGM's case was to fund an additional paid parking garage. - All future projects will probably follow suit and limit the amount of spaces. Throughout all of this, the only big improvement in public transit discussed has been some kind of rail option going down the Strip in the future. Otherwise, it seems to be that locals will pay more by either paying to park or using ride hailing/taxis. In other words, not necessarily moving us forward in transit efficiency and additional revenue to the benefit of a few companies.
- ghaff 10y ago
  This caught me by surprise the last time I was in Vegas for an event although, as it turned out, my rate included parking. I don't know enough about Las Vegas dynamics to know all the rationale behind this. I do know that gaming has dropped percentage-wise as a revenue source. I imagine the impact on visitors isn't that great. I know I won't rent a car unless I'm going outside of the city and it's just cheaper/easier to keep it while I'm staying on the strip. For locals, I imagine it will make some pay more and some switch to off-strip casinos but the higher gaming tiers still get comped anyway. ADDED: I've been told that one of the issues was increased freeloading by people going away on trips and parking at strip hotels, especially Mandalay Bay but I'm not sure how much to credit that given other solutions that don't involve charging everyone for parking.

grok2 10y ago

What about the businesses themselves in these malls/centers...would they survive the transition? In can't be just the design of the mall that is considered, but the entire area around the mall....everything should work together.

marcc 10y ago
Absolutely the entire area should be thought about. Removing the regulation to require a parking lot doesn't seem harmful today. I'm not advocating a restriction or a tax on parking lots here, just removing the requirement that every new construction have a certain number of parking spots.
- tr1ck5t3r 10y ago
  Yet nobody considers the possibility of upgrading the way the financial system works in particular how money is created and disposed of, which is restricting our ability to innovate on a grand scale. At the moment only major investors have this ability, yet are they the best decision makers to say what project gets funding just because they can make money in order to reinvest? If Govt's wanted to drive standards properly, how about keeping cars below a certain weight as weight takes energy to move, that would help keep emissions down globally as the number of vehicles on the road continue to increase. How about cars have to be no bigger than XYZ dimensions? A 1930's UK house with a garage couldn't even house todays Mini such is the increase in vehicle size, fair enough humans have got bigger and many roads in Europe were designed to not only skirt landowners boundaries which is why some countryside roads have many twists and turns, but are not always that wide either. Whilst electric vehicles can move emissions from the road to the power station, the electrical grid still loses power whilst increasing demand on the grid not always at the times planners hope for, and whilst cars can reduce emissions with things like stop start technology, intelligent town planning including co-ordinated city wide traffic lights and designated vehicle routes to handle rush hours would also greatly reduce vehicle emissions and congestion. Lets face it with our smart phone trackers, if an agreed standard was in place you could remove a lot of congestions from towns & cities simply by ignoring the speed limits with multi lane roads and other restrictions that road signs that currently hinder traffic flow.

amyjess 10y ago

And then nearby residents sue the city and the developer for encouraging customers to park on their residential streets. So, in Dallas, the parking requirements for restaurants depend on the amount of seating the restaurant has. A few restaurants got around that by building giant patios with several times the seating as inside, because the regulation doesn't consider outside seating as seating. Residents complained about people parking on their streets and blocking their driveways, and they threatened massive lawsuits. The city council caved and passed a new regulation counting outdoor seating as seating, with no grandfather clause. Now these restaurants have to either build massive parking garages or close their doors.

xapata 10y ago
Ugh. Just enforce no parking in residential areas without the appropriate sticker, like most big cities do.
- freehunter 10y ago
  Then when grandma comes to visit, she gets a parking ticket because she didn't get the right permit? No, the better option is for shopping centers to have enough parking for the customers they anticipate having. Maybe giant parking lots suck, but a business shouldn't be able to destroy a residential neighborhood like that. I've lived in plenty of places where the stores were above the parking garages, and no one from the street could tell there was any parking at all. That's always an option.
  - xapata 10y ago
    > comes to visit ... gets a parking ticket Many neighborhoods that enforce parking permits have a card you can give your guests. Alternately, there may be paid parking nearby. > business shouldn't be able to destroy a residential neighborhood like that. Indeed, but I'd rather our laws and enforcement target the harm (non-residents taking your parking spot) and allow the nearby business to decide whether to offer parking or not. I've lived in and visited many large cities. All my favorite neighborhoods have solved this problem and for the most part the businesses chose to have very little parking, if any.

ArkyBeagle 10y ago

I worked in Montreal for a while. It has a fully self-sufficient downtown, and world class public transport. But if you drove to a WalMart in a suburb, there would be 20 checkers open with ten or twenty people queued up for each.

xapata 10y ago
Walmart is cheap and doesn't have locations in the city. Target will occasionally pick a city site and not bother with parking.