4 ms·

Omelas deserves an honorable mention: a dystopia where a small minority are abused and forced to suffer in an otherwise pleasant society. It's already here.

throwanem 10y ago
Hardly dystopic. And, of course, if you find that state of affairs too immoral to be borne, you can always walk away.
germinalphrase 10y ago
At least they were forced at a young age to personally experience and acknowledge the underlying suffering that allows them to live in a plentiful society.
jack9 10y ago
I would say there's not 1 small minority, when there is multiple small minorities even within small communities that are (or feel they are) "suffering". Some groups are just imagining persecution as a proxy. A desire to control one aspect of their environment in contrast to their lack of control in other areas (e.g. biological constraints or economic position, etc).
KirinDave 10y ago
Western society is built around making other societies and the minorities within somewhat miserable. And the only way to escape this label is to make everyone better off, starting with the most unfairly treated.
atrendyguy 10y ago
In the west minorities and outsiders are treated as morally superior to natives. It's a pathologically "benign" civilization. How long do you think an Arab would last in Han dominated China if he constantly criticized the Chinese for "Han supremacy" and called for an end to their way of life? How long would a Han Chinese survive in Qatar behaving the same way? Ironically, the openness of western society has led to its constant attack by disgruntled minorities. Who realized long ago that complaining loudly wins them resources and privileges.
- chillwaves 10y ago
  The values of inclusiveness and free speech bring inherent stability and progress to society. This is a feature, not a bug.
  - atrendyguy 10y ago
    > bring inherent stability and progress to society. I would classify this sort of thinking as "whig historiography." It's a popular meme, but there's no evidence that it's a good model of reality. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whig_history https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whig_history Embracing "diversity is strength" feels good in an abstract sense, but it seems to fly in the face of evidence. The chaos and conflict brewing now are a direct result of this motto being played out over the last fifty years or so. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=12802663 http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1280266...

throwanem 10y ago

Hardly dystopic. And, of course, if you find that state of affairs too immoral to be borne, you can always walk away.

germinalphrase 10y ago

At least they were forced at a young age to personally experience and acknowledge the underlying suffering that allows them to live in a plentiful society.

jack9 10y ago

I would say there's not 1 small minority, when there is multiple small minorities even within small communities that are (or feel they are) "suffering". Some groups are just imagining persecution as a proxy. A desire to control one aspect of their environment in contrast to their lack of control in other areas (e.g. biological constraints or economic position, etc).

KirinDave 10y ago

Western society is built around making other societies and the minorities within somewhat miserable. And the only way to escape this label is to make everyone better off, starting with the most unfairly treated.

atrendyguy 10y ago

In the west minorities and outsiders are treated as morally superior to natives. It's a pathologically "benign" civilization. How long do you think an Arab would last in Han dominated China if he constantly criticized the Chinese for "Han supremacy" and called for an end to their way of life? How long would a Han Chinese survive in Qatar behaving the same way? Ironically, the openness of western society has led to its constant attack by disgruntled minorities. Who realized long ago that complaining loudly wins them resources and privileges.

chillwaves 10y ago
The values of inclusiveness and free speech bring inherent stability and progress to society. This is a feature, not a bug.
- atrendyguy 10y ago
  > bring inherent stability and progress to society. I would classify this sort of thinking as "whig historiography." It's a popular meme, but there's no evidence that it's a good model of reality. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whig_history https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whig_history Embracing "diversity is strength" feels good in an abstract sense, but it seems to fly in the face of evidence. The chaos and conflict brewing now are a direct result of this motto being played out over the last fifty years or so. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=12802663 http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1280266...