5 ms·

An unskilled operational role. I worked for outsourcers before as well doing support type jobs. Bad pay, ever increasing performance pressure, no benefits (no

An unskilled operational role. I worked for outsourcers before as well doing support type jobs. Bad pay, ever increasing performance pressure, no benefits (no sick pay or health insurance), so if you got sick you were shit out of luck and healthcare was prohibitively expensive. Private insurance was available of course but these were all angle shooting companies in the affordable range that are barely better than having no insurance at all. The gap to the 3rd world is quickly closing in a lot of places these days unfortunately. (and not in a good way) This was in western Europe.

77pt77 10y ago
>This was in western Europe. Most western Europe has socialized medicine. Was health insurance as essential as in the USA?
- traveling 10y ago
  I don't want to dox myself, but you can probably guess which western European country doesn't. Healthcare isn't US level expensive there where you'll go bankrupt with any minor issue but still prohibitively expensive if you don't make much and break your arm for example, so it's somewhat essential. A colleague of mine got diagnosed with a serious heart condition, was away for a month or so without sick pay, got fired as a result and went bankrupt from medical bills.
  - pimlottc 10y ago
    > I don't want to dox myself, but you can probably guess which western European country doesn't. Maybe this is supposed to be an easy question, but as an American, I have no idea which western European country doesn't have socialized medicine, and Wikipedia is not helping me out. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_universal_health_care https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_univers...
    - _asummers 10y ago
      I believe Belarus is the only European one without it, Google wasn't giving me a good list of "nos", but I found a map indicating as much..
      - 77pt77 10y ago
        Belarus is definitely not Western Europe.
    - traveling 10y ago
      Ok I'm going to give you the country, it's Ireland. Some medical card for the destitute exists but if you're working you don't qualify. The whole medical system is a nightmare, but it's a very small country as well.
      - yardie 10y ago
        From the description I assumed it was one of the more Eastern European countries like Romania. I've never looked at Ireland like that. I assumed they had the same setup as most of western EU countries.
        s_kilk 10y ago
        [Born and raised Irish, left at the first opportunity ] Ireland is a weird (and sometimes nightmarish) mix of European and American culture. For some reason we decided that some of the dumbest ideas of the US simply had to be implemented, at great cost to the average citizen.
    - hackermailman 10y ago
      In Canada, specifically BC if you fail to pay monthly medical premiums you have no health insurance either they sell your account to collections and you have to pay cash for any doctor visit. Since private health is not available you're screwed and have to either leave the province to get health insurance again or continue paying cash. There's always loopholes in socialized medicine usually only affecting the poor.
  - senior_james 10y ago
    I keep hearing that you will 'go bankrupt' with every minor health issue in the US. Do you actually live in the US? Have you used US healthcare? I pay for my own health insurance (because I own my own company) and while not cheap, it's affordable. I think I pay around $250 US/month. I get regular checkups included (most prescriptions cost me $10 or less) and I had a colonoscopy last year and it cost me less that $50. If I had major surgery, I would be out a couple of grand. While it does have problems, it's nowhere near as bad as many would like you to think.
    - tyingq 10y ago
      Aside from the deductible, most insurance plans in the US cover only a percentage of costs. 80 or 90 percent is common. For a single, simple, surgery it's bearable. Something like cancer, with ct scans, chemo, radiation, surgery with a 1 week hospital stay, etc...can bankrupt you.
      - brianwawok 10y ago
        90 percent up to out of pocket max. My out of pocket max has always been between 1k and 5k per year. So if I need 1 million dollar cancer treatment, I don't pay 100k. I pay 5k. So no I cannot go bankrupt with health insurance in the US.
        tyingq 10y ago
        The ACA did fix some of that, but there are situations that can still be challenging. The max out of pocket can be higher than yours..close to $8k/person, and it's annual, so if you get sick late in the year, the clock starts over. It's also not uncommon to have to go out of network for certain types of treatment, which opens up more doors. Also, many people aren't able to work when they are sick.
        senior_james 10y ago
        I see you have actual experience with the system. Most people commenting here seem to be parroting talking points from politicians. When I actually post my real experiences, I get down voted to -2. ....and we wonder why there are so many broken systems in the US.
- sambe 10y ago
  What does "socialised medicine" mean? Many European countries have mandatory health insurance premiums on top of normal taxation (for example: Netherlands, Switzerland). The original poster says claims Ireland doesn't and whilst I'd assume they know more than I do, http://www.hse.ie/eng/services/Find_a_Service/eligibility.html http://www.hse.ie/eng/services/Find_a_Service/eligibility.ht... makes it sound substantially free or heavily subsidised ("comprehensive, government funded public healthcare system").
  - traveling 10y ago
    See the means test here: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/health/medical_cards_and_gp_visit_cards/medical_card_means_test_under_70s.html http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/health/medical_cards_an... Sounds comprehensive to you? The income threshold is so low that only unemployed people qualify.
    - sambe 10y ago
      The link I posted said that's for roughly 30% of people, to receive completely free care, so yes, it's fairly low. Skimming further than that page suggested the remainder was still heavily subsidized. Most European countries I've experienced do not have 100% free healthcare for all.
- ino 10y ago
  Germany doesn't, for example. You have private ensurance companies and you have to chose one. When things go bad, you bet the insurance company won't be on your side. It's all ok if you have a good job (IT or otherwise) that pays for the best, but for poorer people it sucks.
  - rangibaby 10y ago
    I don't mind Japan's system. You pay monthly to the government (about 10% of your income for a married couple with a child) then the government pays 70% of your medical bill out of that, no questions asked.
    - ino 10y ago
      Do you have to pay if you're unemployed?
      - rangibaby 10y ago
        The short answer is no. The long answer is your bill is based on your salary from the previous year e.g. Jan 2017 bill will be based on Jan 2016 income, which is not nice if you don't have a job anymore. The good part is extensions are easy to get. Other than that it is free for poor people.
  - kogepathic 10y ago
    > Germany doesn't, for example. You have private ensurance companies and you have to chose one. What? No. In Germany you have public health insurance and private health insurance. Private is only an option if you make over ~55,000€ or are self employed. Of course there are many private insurance companies happy to sell you insurance. They're in it to make money. Just be prepared for the premiums to increase as you get older. Public health insurance [0] is available from several different providers, all which basically offer the same thing: you get sick and go the doctor, you are treated without charge. > When things go bad, you bet the insurance company won't be on your side. I have never been seriously ill, but for all the minor things (flu, infection) I just went to the doctor and gave them my health card. I do know people who have been seriously I'll, requiring hospitalisation, and I haven't heard many complaints from them. They're still alive, and not financially ruined or suing the Krakenkasse. So how exactly will they not be "on your side" ? The public health system in Germany, and other European countries from what my friends say, is not the most luxurious or expedient, but you get the care you need and without paying extravagant amounts as one would in America. I know people in America on ACA who pay thousands per year and still have a deductable of thousands. Sure, I pay ~4,000€ to the Krakenkasse through the mandatory salary deductions each year, but I have no deductable for care. As a young and healthy person it doesn't cost the German government that much each year to keep me alive, but this money goes toward keeping other people healthy and alive. I consider that a worthwhile goal (though I do strongly want them to ban tobacco advertising). [0] https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gesetzliche_Krankenversicherung#Krankenkassen https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gesetzliche_Krankenversicher...

77pt77 10y ago

>This was in western Europe. Most western Europe has socialized medicine. Was health insurance as essential as in the USA?

traveling 10y ago
I don't want to dox myself, but you can probably guess which western European country doesn't. Healthcare isn't US level expensive there where you'll go bankrupt with any minor issue but still prohibitively expensive if you don't make much and break your arm for example, so it's somewhat essential. A colleague of mine got diagnosed with a serious heart condition, was away for a month or so without sick pay, got fired as a result and went bankrupt from medical bills.
- pimlottc 10y ago
  > I don't want to dox myself, but you can probably guess which western European country doesn't. Maybe this is supposed to be an easy question, but as an American, I have no idea which western European country doesn't have socialized medicine, and Wikipedia is not helping me out. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_universal_health_care https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_univers...
  - _asummers 10y ago
    I believe Belarus is the only European one without it, Google wasn't giving me a good list of "nos", but I found a map indicating as much..
    - 77pt77 10y ago
      Belarus is definitely not Western Europe.
  - traveling 10y ago
    Ok I'm going to give you the country, it's Ireland. Some medical card for the destitute exists but if you're working you don't qualify. The whole medical system is a nightmare, but it's a very small country as well.
    - yardie 10y ago
      From the description I assumed it was one of the more Eastern European countries like Romania. I've never looked at Ireland like that. I assumed they had the same setup as most of western EU countries.
      - s_kilk 10y ago
        [Born and raised Irish, left at the first opportunity ] Ireland is a weird (and sometimes nightmarish) mix of European and American culture. For some reason we decided that some of the dumbest ideas of the US simply had to be implemented, at great cost to the average citizen.
  - hackermailman 10y ago
    In Canada, specifically BC if you fail to pay monthly medical premiums you have no health insurance either they sell your account to collections and you have to pay cash for any doctor visit. Since private health is not available you're screwed and have to either leave the province to get health insurance again or continue paying cash. There's always loopholes in socialized medicine usually only affecting the poor.
- senior_james 10y ago
  I keep hearing that you will 'go bankrupt' with every minor health issue in the US. Do you actually live in the US? Have you used US healthcare? I pay for my own health insurance (because I own my own company) and while not cheap, it's affordable. I think I pay around $250 US/month. I get regular checkups included (most prescriptions cost me $10 or less) and I had a colonoscopy last year and it cost me less that $50. If I had major surgery, I would be out a couple of grand. While it does have problems, it's nowhere near as bad as many would like you to think.
  - tyingq 10y ago
    Aside from the deductible, most insurance plans in the US cover only a percentage of costs. 80 or 90 percent is common. For a single, simple, surgery it's bearable. Something like cancer, with ct scans, chemo, radiation, surgery with a 1 week hospital stay, etc...can bankrupt you.
    - brianwawok 10y ago
      90 percent up to out of pocket max. My out of pocket max has always been between 1k and 5k per year. So if I need 1 million dollar cancer treatment, I don't pay 100k. I pay 5k. So no I cannot go bankrupt with health insurance in the US.
      - tyingq 10y ago
        The ACA did fix some of that, but there are situations that can still be challenging. The max out of pocket can be higher than yours..close to $8k/person, and it's annual, so if you get sick late in the year, the clock starts over. It's also not uncommon to have to go out of network for certain types of treatment, which opens up more doors. Also, many people aren't able to work when they are sick.
      - senior_james 10y ago
        I see you have actual experience with the system. Most people commenting here seem to be parroting talking points from politicians. When I actually post my real experiences, I get down voted to -2. ....and we wonder why there are so many broken systems in the US.
sambe 10y ago
What does "socialised medicine" mean? Many European countries have mandatory health insurance premiums on top of normal taxation (for example: Netherlands, Switzerland). The original poster says claims Ireland doesn't and whilst I'd assume they know more than I do, http://www.hse.ie/eng/services/Find_a_Service/eligibility.html http://www.hse.ie/eng/services/Find_a_Service/eligibility.ht... makes it sound substantially free or heavily subsidised ("comprehensive, government funded public healthcare system").
- traveling 10y ago
  See the means test here: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/health/medical_cards_and_gp_visit_cards/medical_card_means_test_under_70s.html http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/health/medical_cards_an... Sounds comprehensive to you? The income threshold is so low that only unemployed people qualify.
  - sambe 10y ago
    The link I posted said that's for roughly 30% of people, to receive completely free care, so yes, it's fairly low. Skimming further than that page suggested the remainder was still heavily subsidized. Most European countries I've experienced do not have 100% free healthcare for all.
ino 10y ago
Germany doesn't, for example. You have private ensurance companies and you have to chose one. When things go bad, you bet the insurance company won't be on your side. It's all ok if you have a good job (IT or otherwise) that pays for the best, but for poorer people it sucks.
- rangibaby 10y ago
  I don't mind Japan's system. You pay monthly to the government (about 10% of your income for a married couple with a child) then the government pays 70% of your medical bill out of that, no questions asked.
  - ino 10y ago
    Do you have to pay if you're unemployed?
    - rangibaby 10y ago
      The short answer is no. The long answer is your bill is based on your salary from the previous year e.g. Jan 2017 bill will be based on Jan 2016 income, which is not nice if you don't have a job anymore. The good part is extensions are easy to get. Other than that it is free for poor people.
- kogepathic 10y ago
  > Germany doesn't, for example. You have private ensurance companies and you have to chose one. What? No. In Germany you have public health insurance and private health insurance. Private is only an option if you make over ~55,000€ or are self employed. Of course there are many private insurance companies happy to sell you insurance. They're in it to make money. Just be prepared for the premiums to increase as you get older. Public health insurance [0] is available from several different providers, all which basically offer the same thing: you get sick and go the doctor, you are treated without charge. > When things go bad, you bet the insurance company won't be on your side. I have never been seriously ill, but for all the minor things (flu, infection) I just went to the doctor and gave them my health card. I do know people who have been seriously I'll, requiring hospitalisation, and I haven't heard many complaints from them. They're still alive, and not financially ruined or suing the Krakenkasse. So how exactly will they not be "on your side" ? The public health system in Germany, and other European countries from what my friends say, is not the most luxurious or expedient, but you get the care you need and without paying extravagant amounts as one would in America. I know people in America on ACA who pay thousands per year and still have a deductable of thousands. Sure, I pay ~4,000€ to the Krakenkasse through the mandatory salary deductions each year, but I have no deductable for care. As a young and healthy person it doesn't cost the German government that much each year to keep me alive, but this money goes toward keeping other people healthy and alive. I consider that a worthwhile goal (though I do strongly want them to ban tobacco advertising). [0] https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gesetzliche_Krankenversicherung#Krankenkassen https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gesetzliche_Krankenversicher...