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Let me paint this in a more interesting colour: at $work, most of our development work is very POSIX-y software (it only runs on Linux, but historically, at lea

Let me paint this in a more interesting colour: at $work, most of our development work is very POSIX-y software (it only runs on Linux, but historically, at least portions of it used to run on a bunch of BSDs, too, and they probably still do, but no one tried it in years). Almost no one in the office uses Unix on their computer, not even those of us who use Linux at home. Most of us have Windows stations. We can install anything on them, but most of us didn't bother. They're glorified remote terminals anyway (the code is compiled and edited on a bunch of build servers). The servers do run Linux, but if we were to start from scratch now, we could probably pull off a decent build system under Windows as well. I'm using Emacs and relying on a bunch of Unix tools, either directly (grep) or indirectly (cscope through xcscope), but my colleagues who use Eclipse wouldn't feel much of a difference if the servers ran Windows. I used to run Linux at my previous $workplace, but I definitely lost more time than my employer would be comfortable knowing disentangling things that regularly broke after updates (mostly Gnome- and systemd-related, really, but thanks to xdg's lovely practices, using a Linux system without something that can perform the black magic associated with sessions, seats, file associations and whatnot is very unpleasant). My Windows laptop hasn't crashed once, the applications I need haven't broken once, and I haven't had to do the restart your computer to install this driver dance at all, I literally started it and hacked away. Plus, doing systems programming on a Windows system isn't all that bad, thanks to Dave Cutler and his colleagues being brilliant engineers. I'm torn about using Windows at home, largely because I now have fifteen years' worth of BSD and Linux-managed files and countless convenience scripts to migrate, because I don't really trust Microsoft and because I think fighting my OS so that it will stop giving me ads and sending my stuff to Redmond is about as productive as wrestling with a modern Linux systems' innuvashon. But, much unlike 15 years ago, I probably could. > my home office where I keep an Octane for nostalgia's sake, and the wife has her old SPARCstation. I wish I had neighbours like you :-(

icebraining 10y ago
I used to run Linux at my previous $workplace, but I definitely lost more time than my employer would be comfortable knowing disentangling things that regularly broke after updates Sounds like you were upgrading too often (almost sure, if you were already dealing with systemd). Windows releases a new version only every 3-4 years, there's no reason to update your Linux workstations any faster. At my work, we're still using a mix of Ubuntu 12.04 and 14.04, both of which are still supported, and we just add a couple of repositories for specific applications (particularly browsers). I do use Debian Unstable on my personal laptop, but that's because I don't mind fixing it if I have to (which, mind, I haven't had to do in a long time). But for work? LTS all the way.
- notalaser 10y ago
  Sadly, the choice wasn't quite mine to make, so I had to follow the regular Ubuntu releases. What can I say, I looked at non-LTS releases and looked and looked but didn't see the beta marking and I thought they were actually production-ready... I used to run Debian stable at home a while ago and did like the stability, but the security update situation is not exactly something I'm happy with.
  - icebraining 10y ago
    It's not that Ubuntu releases aren't production-ready, it's that no major OS releases are production-ready - hence Windows 8.1, and one of the reasons why Enterprise is still on 7. By using LTS, you get to skip that nonsense for years, and jump directly into a release which has had its kinks ironed out (or at least documented). As for Debian security updates, what do you mean?
    - notalaser 10y ago
      There is a great deal of effort involved in backporting updates to frequently-updated packages. Debian, for instance, doesn't update WebKit (or at least didn't last time I checked, and had a policy for it). Consequently, things like Evolution (which uses WebKit internally) are a walking CVE museum on Debian stable. The situation is similar for a lot of other packages, on a lot of other distributions with long-term support (Debian actually has a large enough community of skilled enough developers that they're faring well in this regard). I don't want to minimize or belittle the work that they're doing, I only mention Debian because it's been my go-to distro for a very long time. They're also alleviating the problem in the most common use cases (e.g. they do update Chromium if you need a webkit browser). Codebases like WebKit's are simply too large, too complex and too quickly-shifting for a community-driven project to be able to backport fixes. Even where the codebase is small enough, backporting is a nasty business. I've seen it done commercially, so with proper funding and proper teams and whatnot, and the success rate is not something that I'd consider encouraging. I've shot myself in the foot while doing it, too. There are certain types of setups that lend themselves well to long-term support models. Server systems, up to a certain degree of complexity, embedded systems with a restricted set of packages -- maybe. A modern Linux desktop is not one of these systems IMO. A Linux desktop with four year-old packages is very likely to be very buggy in very nasty ways.
milesrout 10y ago
I'm sure you theoretically could run everything on Windows. But you don't, because doing so would be a bad idea.

icebraining 10y ago

I used to run Linux at my previous $workplace, but I definitely lost more time than my employer would be comfortable knowing disentangling things that regularly broke after updates Sounds like you were upgrading too often (almost sure, if you were already dealing with systemd). Windows releases a new version only every 3-4 years, there's no reason to update your Linux workstations any faster. At my work, we're still using a mix of Ubuntu 12.04 and 14.04, both of which are still supported, and we just add a couple of repositories for specific applications (particularly browsers). I do use Debian Unstable on my personal laptop, but that's because I don't mind fixing it if I have to (which, mind, I haven't had to do in a long time). But for work? LTS all the way.

notalaser 10y ago
Sadly, the choice wasn't quite mine to make, so I had to follow the regular Ubuntu releases. What can I say, I looked at non-LTS releases and looked and looked but didn't see the beta marking and I thought they were actually production-ready... I used to run Debian stable at home a while ago and did like the stability, but the security update situation is not exactly something I'm happy with.
- icebraining 10y ago
  It's not that Ubuntu releases aren't production-ready, it's that no major OS releases are production-ready - hence Windows 8.1, and one of the reasons why Enterprise is still on 7. By using LTS, you get to skip that nonsense for years, and jump directly into a release which has had its kinks ironed out (or at least documented). As for Debian security updates, what do you mean?
  - notalaser 10y ago
    There is a great deal of effort involved in backporting updates to frequently-updated packages. Debian, for instance, doesn't update WebKit (or at least didn't last time I checked, and had a policy for it). Consequently, things like Evolution (which uses WebKit internally) are a walking CVE museum on Debian stable. The situation is similar for a lot of other packages, on a lot of other distributions with long-term support (Debian actually has a large enough community of skilled enough developers that they're faring well in this regard). I don't want to minimize or belittle the work that they're doing, I only mention Debian because it's been my go-to distro for a very long time. They're also alleviating the problem in the most common use cases (e.g. they do update Chromium if you need a webkit browser). Codebases like WebKit's are simply too large, too complex and too quickly-shifting for a community-driven project to be able to backport fixes. Even where the codebase is small enough, backporting is a nasty business. I've seen it done commercially, so with proper funding and proper teams and whatnot, and the success rate is not something that I'd consider encouraging. I've shot myself in the foot while doing it, too. There are certain types of setups that lend themselves well to long-term support models. Server systems, up to a certain degree of complexity, embedded systems with a restricted set of packages -- maybe. A modern Linux desktop is not one of these systems IMO. A Linux desktop with four year-old packages is very likely to be very buggy in very nasty ways.

milesrout 10y ago

I'm sure you theoretically could run everything on Windows. But you don't, because doing so would be a bad idea.