4 ms·

People want the personal freedom of driving cars, they want yards, and they want room. They don't want to be packed into stacked boxes.

guelo 10y ago
People also don't want to spend two hours a day commuting.
TillE 10y ago
You know suburbs are a thing which barely exist outside of America, right? It's an incredibly weird, artificial concept. You want space, you move to the countryside. That makes sense at least.
- CalRobert 10y ago
  I remember when I first moved to Dublin I told people that I despised suburbs. They seemed to think this was odd. It took a while to realize they thought I meant places like Rathmines (25 minute, 1 mile walk from the core of the city), and not some asphalt hellscape 30 miles away (a la Fremont, or Dublin CA for that matter).
II2II 10y ago
There is no need to sacrifice owning a home with a yard or the ability to own a car. It is possible increase the population density in many suburbs through more effective land use, making more modes of transportation feasible. Once those other modes of transportation become feasible, the myth of the personal freedom of driving may actually be true. Driving out of necessity is not freedom. It is a burden. It forces people to work more to purchase, insure, maintain, and fuel a vehicle. It forces people to work more to pay the taxes necessary to build and maintain more roads as well as higher capacity roads. It forces people to work more to pay higher taxes because the land lost to roads, whether it is paved over or serves as a buffer, does not generate property tax revenue. In cases where there is no business or residential frontage on a road, people are paying more taxes to build yet more roads to provide access the adjoining land. And even after you have considered how people are slaves to their jobs because of the expenses incurred by automobile centric cities, they are slaves to their vehicle because other modes of transportation are not viable. Personal freedom comes from choice. Many of our cities are not designed with that choice in mind.
- intrasight 10y ago
  So true. And I hope that comes to pass.
- mason240 10y ago
  "Freedom is slavery" Very Orwellian.
jclardy 10y ago
It is interesting to me that you (and many others) associate cars with freedom. I think in a way it is ingrained into American culture (at least for people that grew up in the suburbs or further out) - getting your drivers license is a rite of passage here. Up until that point you have to rely on your parents to get anywhere, because the only place you can walk to other houses in your neighborhood. I grew up in the suburbs and moved to the inner city when I had the choice. I own a car, but I find it hard to imagine not having so much walkability. To me that is more freeing than having to drive 20 minutes to get anywhere. If I want outdoor space I can walk to a park, or drive to the countryside.
crooked-v 10y ago
Personally, I hate doing yardwork, I like being able to walk to most things and only rarely having to drive, and I'm quite happy with my "stacked box".
dangjc 10y ago
Cars are not freedom when you can't drive, ie anyone younger than 16, anyone too old to drive, anyone disabled. Being stuck in bumper to bumper traffic is not freedom. Especially compared to commuting on a train where you can read or get some work done.

guelo 10y ago

People also don't want to spend two hours a day commuting.

TillE 10y ago

You know suburbs are a thing which barely exist outside of America, right? It's an incredibly weird, artificial concept. You want space, you move to the countryside. That makes sense at least.

CalRobert 10y ago
I remember when I first moved to Dublin I told people that I despised suburbs. They seemed to think this was odd. It took a while to realize they thought I meant places like Rathmines (25 minute, 1 mile walk from the core of the city), and not some asphalt hellscape 30 miles away (a la Fremont, or Dublin CA for that matter).

II2II 10y ago

There is no need to sacrifice owning a home with a yard or the ability to own a car. It is possible increase the population density in many suburbs through more effective land use, making more modes of transportation feasible. Once those other modes of transportation become feasible, the myth of the personal freedom of driving may actually be true. Driving out of necessity is not freedom. It is a burden. It forces people to work more to purchase, insure, maintain, and fuel a vehicle. It forces people to work more to pay the taxes necessary to build and maintain more roads as well as higher capacity roads. It forces people to work more to pay higher taxes because the land lost to roads, whether it is paved over or serves as a buffer, does not generate property tax revenue. In cases where there is no business or residential frontage on a road, people are paying more taxes to build yet more roads to provide access the adjoining land. And even after you have considered how people are slaves to their jobs because of the expenses incurred by automobile centric cities, they are slaves to their vehicle because other modes of transportation are not viable. Personal freedom comes from choice. Many of our cities are not designed with that choice in mind.

intrasight 10y ago
So true. And I hope that comes to pass.
mason240 10y ago
"Freedom is slavery" Very Orwellian.

jclardy 10y ago

It is interesting to me that you (and many others) associate cars with freedom. I think in a way it is ingrained into American culture (at least for people that grew up in the suburbs or further out) - getting your drivers license is a rite of passage here. Up until that point you have to rely on your parents to get anywhere, because the only place you can walk to other houses in your neighborhood. I grew up in the suburbs and moved to the inner city when I had the choice. I own a car, but I find it hard to imagine not having so much walkability. To me that is more freeing than having to drive 20 minutes to get anywhere. If I want outdoor space I can walk to a park, or drive to the countryside.

crooked-v 10y ago

Personally, I hate doing yardwork, I like being able to walk to most things and only rarely having to drive, and I'm quite happy with my "stacked box".

dangjc 10y ago

Cars are not freedom when you can't drive, ie anyone younger than 16, anyone too old to drive, anyone disabled. Being stuck in bumper to bumper traffic is not freedom. Especially compared to commuting on a train where you can read or get some work done.