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I agree with his intent but not his delivery. However, asking a community with many engineers to not harshly nitpick someone else's contribution is a futile ta

I agree with his intent but not his delivery. However, asking a community with many engineers to not harshly nitpick someone else's contribution is a futile task.

vog 10y ago
> asking a community with many engineers to not harshly nitpick someone else's contribution is a futile task. Behaviour like this also not acceptable in "real life", neither at work place nor anywhere else. Maybe some get away with that cliché behaviour, but in my experience this is just an inappropriate way to deal with their own weaknesses, leading to embarrassing situations (for them) as soon as they get to work with people more experienced than they are.
- relics443 10y ago
  I agree that it's not acceptable. Doesn't mean it's not futile to ask for it to stop.
  - azernik 10y ago
    I have worked in professional software engineering environments where people acted professionally, and plan to create one in my new company. The mentality that "nerds will be nerds" enables and perpetuates this counterproductive behavior.
    - relics443 10y ago
      Same here. But a new engineer I hired who looked great on paper and on his interviews is just obscene. He's not a great engineer to boot. Can't fire him because I need him for now. I don't think it's a self perpetuating stereotype. I think some people are wired that way, and engineers tend to skew there because of the way their brains work (obviously not every engineer).
      - pinnbert 10y ago
        Don't for get that some people who think they are smart really are.
        vog 10y ago
        So what? Is "smartness" an excuse for the unwillingless to learn productive (or at least non-destructive) social behaviour? If anything, I'd argue it is exactly the reverse: From people describing themselves as "smart" I expect the ability to learn this even more. They are definitely not too dumb to learn this: Internalizing some basic rules of social behaviour is not harder than learning a new programming language or familiarizing with a new framework. It's not because they are unable, but because they don't care and got away with it so far - by which I mean they didn't have to face the consequences of the damage they created in the past. That's why any reasonable manager (or community leader) needs to create an environment where they have to care early on, before anything significant happens.
      - vog 10y ago
        > I think some people are wired that way How is this attitude different from perpetuating stereotypes?
dang 10y ago
If we ask politely and explain why, most people are happy to play along. It's easy to see how trying for higher-quality discussion is good for the community.
pizza 10y ago
but the inherent futility of the belief that its better to believe its futile to ask people to be nice is a worse situation

I agree with his intent but not his delivery. However, asking a community with many engineers to not harshly nitpick someone else's contribution is a futile task.

vog 10y ago

> asking a community with many engineers to not harshly nitpick someone else's contribution is a futile task. Behaviour like this also not acceptable in "real life", neither at work place nor anywhere else. Maybe some get away with that cliché behaviour, but in my experience this is just an inappropriate way to deal with their own weaknesses, leading to embarrassing situations (for them) as soon as they get to work with people more experienced than they are.

relics443 10y ago
I agree that it's not acceptable. Doesn't mean it's not futile to ask for it to stop.
- azernik 10y ago
  I have worked in professional software engineering environments where people acted professionally, and plan to create one in my new company. The mentality that "nerds will be nerds" enables and perpetuates this counterproductive behavior.
  - relics443 10y ago
    Same here. But a new engineer I hired who looked great on paper and on his interviews is just obscene. He's not a great engineer to boot. Can't fire him because I need him for now. I don't think it's a self perpetuating stereotype. I think some people are wired that way, and engineers tend to skew there because of the way their brains work (obviously not every engineer).
    - pinnbert 10y ago
      Don't for get that some people who think they are smart really are.
      - vog 10y ago
        So what? Is "smartness" an excuse for the unwillingless to learn productive (or at least non-destructive) social behaviour? If anything, I'd argue it is exactly the reverse: From people describing themselves as "smart" I expect the ability to learn this even more. They are definitely not too dumb to learn this: Internalizing some basic rules of social behaviour is not harder than learning a new programming language or familiarizing with a new framework. It's not because they are unable, but because they don't care and got away with it so far - by which I mean they didn't have to face the consequences of the damage they created in the past. That's why any reasonable manager (or community leader) needs to create an environment where they have to care early on, before anything significant happens.
    - vog 10y ago
      > I think some people are wired that way How is this attitude different from perpetuating stereotypes?

dang 10y ago

If we ask politely and explain why, most people are happy to play along. It's easy to see how trying for higher-quality discussion is good for the community.

pizza 10y ago

but the inherent futility of the belief that its better to believe its futile to ask people to be nice is a worse situation