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Summary: the cofounders disagreed so two of them left. Maybe I'm an old guy but I don't really understand why this blog post exists, it's like hundreds of word

by CPLX 10y ago

Summary: the cofounders disagreed so two of them left. Maybe I'm an old guy but I don't really understand why this blog post exists, it's like hundreds of words of emotive rambling and vague talk of journeys and values and euphemisms for simple concepts. Would it like have ruined anything to write something like "A couple key early people are moving on but we're doing pretty good, we make social media software and have revenue ok hey thanks for listening I'm going to get back to that now have a great Friday" and then hit save?

praneshp 10y ago
I came to the same conclusion too, but I felt the blogs left a good taste in the end rather than raising questions in my mind. I was surprised at the number of "retreats" the team seems to have had though, maybe that's baked into the compensation, etc.
- jethro_tell 10y ago
  Like they pay you extra to have to do it?
maxerickson 10y ago
They really go for the transparency. Like here is what everyone working there earns: https://open.buffer.com/transparent-salaries/ https://open.buffer.com/transparent-salaries/
mgiannopoulos 10y ago
Transparency is part of their marketing / way of operating
zxcvvcxz 10y ago
It's a "millenial startup", you old timer ;)
draw_down 10y ago
Well, I know what you mean but there are worse things.
ethank 10y ago
Buffer is similar to a lot of companies that are obsessed with being companies rather than about the products they make.
- neogodless 10y ago
  I thought similar things after reading this: "We will be a long-term, sustainable, fully remote team that works hard on mission-driven work. We will be the most reliable social media tool in the market. And we will continue to push the boundaries of transparency, culture and freedom in the team." The first and last sentence has nothing to do with the product, and the product statement doesn't even hint at what it does... just that it does it well!
  - aub3bhat 10y ago
    Yeah after a while it seems like the classic case of taking themselves too seriously. I was like "Chill" you guys are developing tools to tweet later not saving lives or anything.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    - baby 10y ago
      Not every company has to disrupt, revolutionize, save the US/world (ok the last one was a rant about super hero movies)
  - x0x0 10y ago
    Employees are an audience, maybe the primary audience, for this message. Buffer has collected employees that prioritize this sort of transparency and emotional sharing. Which makes the message seem apt.
- the_watcher 10y ago
  Actually, they're somewhat of the opposite of this.
- 10y ago
dsjoerg 10y ago
I'm old too but you should think harder about this. You can learn from bitter experience, and you also can learn from the detailed accounts written by others. Don't begrudge the youngins the chance to learn from other people's experience (and mistakes). It's a ton of work to manage these kind of leadership changes, so the incremental cost of also writing about it for an hour or two isn't much. So no, to answer your question, it wouldn't have ruined anything to write something short and sweet like your example. And yeah, if he had taken more time he could have made the post shorter. Grumpy Friday!
mattbee 10y ago
Yeah there is some real baby language: "But this is indeed a case of differing visions – neither better than the other, just different." OH PLEASE! Joel clearly wants to be transparent about this, but the core of you the reader wants know is glossed right over. But full transparency around a personal disagreement would be really inappropriate. It'd make everyone & the company look terrible. If you want to be transparent, c'mon, let it fly - who's the egomaniac, who's the alcoholic, whose vision is going to burn the company to the ground etc. etc.? (ofc please don't) Good luck to 'em, we're paying customers, but I totally agree a buttoned-up, terse post would be more transparent than this eye-rolling "incredible journey".
- teachrdan 10y ago
  I respectfully disagree. Buffer needs to fully commit to a single path forward. The cofounders disagreed on which path to take. Rather than going with a compromise that would certainly fail, one of them left so that the company might succeed. You might, perhaps, say "a case of differing visions - neither known to be better than the other", because at this point they really don't know which approach will work best. But I don't see anything insincere in this post. They need to fully commit to a single vision. The former cofounder did the right thing by leaving and making space for someone else who does share the vision to step in.
aml183 10y ago
I agree with you and even though their words may be a bit fluffed up, they really are transparent. It's hard to fault Buffer when they have been transparent with everything they do!
the_watcher 10y ago
Buffer is somewhat well-known for over the top, radical transparency. Not writing something like this would have been far more surprising if you've followed the company at all.
patja 10y ago
Old guy here. I am sure many like me find the whole premise of the company a bit repulsive. If you are going to throw all of your professional energy into creating and growing a company can't you find something more meaningful than just building a social media spam engine?
- mememachine 10y ago
  Whats wrong with this?
- bookbinder 10y ago
  Well it's hardly spam since clients are posting to their own social media accounts.
- alexbanks 10y ago
  Your opinion about the validity of the work has nothing to do with the potential growth and success of the company/product. Being a plumber may not be "meaningful" to some, but it's definitely possible to be successful and make a lot of money doing it.
nstart 10y ago
I work at buffer. Some slight perspective. From all my interactions with Joel, I could describe him as soft spoken and very sensitive towards people around him. For him Leo and Sunil really did cross the boundaries of being simply coo and CTO. They have all been extremely close friends. For him this blog post probably isn't just a public announcement. It cements in the fact that it's actually happening. The transition period is closing off. His close friends whose advice he could always rely on are no longer there and that weight of being responsible for close to 80 people suddenly feels a lot heavier on him. I totally understand where you are coming from. All I'd like to pass on is the thought that it's not just numbers and back to a great Friday for him (or any of us). He's human too. And we humans need some space to take in and deal with complex emotions. That's kind of the bigger feel to what this blog post is about :). Cheers!
- eeeeeeeeeeeee 10y ago
  This is a great comment. It's so easy to be hyper-critical when you're critiquing words on a screen and not realizing there is a human behind those words.
- bootload 10y ago
  " For him this blog post probably isn't just a public announcement. It cements in the fact that it's actually happening." Excellent observation.
nilkn 10y ago
I've been at a startup when a high-level executive/cofounder abruptly left with nothing but a short and vague email, and it was very unsettling to me and immediately made me worry about the long-term health of the company and whether or not there was hidden infighting at the top. I think I would've felt a bit more comfortable with this sort of transparency, although I agree that ultimately it's still fairly vague and feels a bit rambling. I think most likely Buffer is just beginning a slow decline that will be drawn out for several years leading to either more downsizing or eventual death, and the two cofounders who left decided to get out now rather than ride that out. I don't see a major company acquiring Buffer's 100% remote team, but I could be wrong.
bookbinder 10y ago
> hundreds of words of emotive rambling and vague talk of journeys and values and euphemisms for simple concepts. I think for the new generation, vague emotional rhetoric has replaced old school business gibberish like "We need a paradigm shift" and so on. People like the idea of appearing to be open and honest without actually making themselves vulnerable by revealing their true thoughts and feelings.
getpost 10y ago
Agree with CPLX. It is improper to speak for others in this way. If Leo and Sunil want to post about their plans, they may do so. "Leo and Sunil asked me to to say this...." would be fine, although still TMI. A customer might think, 'Wow the company is falling apart and the remaining founder seems lost in his own world. I should find another vendor.'
- webmaven 10y ago
  > It is improper to speak for others in this way. If Leo and Sunil want to post about their plans, they may do so. ICYMI, the departing executives in question did post about their plans, and (similarly to the OP) with a bit of reflection on their part: https://hackernoon.com/after-6-incredible-years-at-buffer-im-moving-on-to-something-else-e06ec40c3f16 https://hackernoon.com/after-6-incredible-years-at-buffer-im... https://medium.com/@sunils34/parting-ways-with-buffer-ee016bc2098d https://medium.com/@sunils34/parting-ways-with-buffer-ee016b... There doesn't seem to be any reason for customers to be concerned, and the contemplative style of the post is by no means new. On the contrary, it would be a matter of concern if the post wasn't primarily concerned with a retrospective on how they got to where they are today as well as individual styles, goals, personalities, and emotional fulfilment.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
jwilliams 10y ago
Buffer is all about social media. What drives their product/business is sharing and transparency -- Collaboration, openness, sharing is what make their product thrive. It's also the values, conversations and content that their typical customer (social media, influencers, mavens, etc, etc) loves to engage in. They live that through the company, their values - which manifests in content and transparency like this. Makes total sense to me. Perhaps not right in other contexts (likely the ones you value or are used to) -- but in general aligning your company culture, values, brand and approach to your market makes a lot of sense.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

by CPLX 10y ago

praneshp 10y ago

I came to the same conclusion too, but I felt the blogs left a good taste in the end rather than raising questions in my mind. I was surprised at the number of "retreats" the team seems to have had though, maybe that's baked into the compensation, etc.

jethro_tell 10y ago
Like they pay you extra to have to do it?

maxerickson 10y ago

They really go for the transparency. Like here is what everyone working there earns: https://open.buffer.com/transparent-salaries/ https://open.buffer.com/transparent-salaries/

mgiannopoulos 10y ago

Transparency is part of their marketing / way of operating

zxcvvcxz 10y ago

It's a "millenial startup", you old timer ;)

draw_down 10y ago

Well, I know what you mean but there are worse things.

ethank 10y ago

Buffer is similar to a lot of companies that are obsessed with being companies rather than about the products they make.

neogodless 10y ago
I thought similar things after reading this: "We will be a long-term, sustainable, fully remote team that works hard on mission-driven work. We will be the most reliable social media tool in the market. And we will continue to push the boundaries of transparency, culture and freedom in the team." The first and last sentence has nothing to do with the product, and the product statement doesn't even hint at what it does... just that it does it well!
- aub3bhat 10y ago
  Yeah after a while it seems like the classic case of taking themselves too seriously. I was like "Chill" you guys are developing tools to tweet later not saving lives or anything.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - baby 10y ago
    Not every company has to disrupt, revolutionize, save the US/world (ok the last one was a rant about super hero movies)
- x0x0 10y ago
  Employees are an audience, maybe the primary audience, for this message. Buffer has collected employees that prioritize this sort of transparency and emotional sharing. Which makes the message seem apt.
the_watcher 10y ago
Actually, they're somewhat of the opposite of this.
10y ago

dsjoerg 10y ago

I'm old too but you should think harder about this. You can learn from bitter experience, and you also can learn from the detailed accounts written by others. Don't begrudge the youngins the chance to learn from other people's experience (and mistakes). It's a ton of work to manage these kind of leadership changes, so the incremental cost of also writing about it for an hour or two isn't much. So no, to answer your question, it wouldn't have ruined anything to write something short and sweet like your example. And yeah, if he had taken more time he could have made the post shorter. Grumpy Friday!

mattbee 10y ago

Yeah there is some real baby language: "But this is indeed a case of differing visions – neither better than the other, just different." OH PLEASE! Joel clearly wants to be transparent about this, but the core of you the reader wants know is glossed right over. But full transparency around a personal disagreement would be really inappropriate. It'd make everyone & the company look terrible. If you want to be transparent, c'mon, let it fly - who's the egomaniac, who's the alcoholic, whose vision is going to burn the company to the ground etc. etc.? (ofc please don't) Good luck to 'em, we're paying customers, but I totally agree a buttoned-up, terse post would be more transparent than this eye-rolling "incredible journey".

teachrdan 10y ago
I respectfully disagree. Buffer needs to fully commit to a single path forward. The cofounders disagreed on which path to take. Rather than going with a compromise that would certainly fail, one of them left so that the company might succeed. You might, perhaps, say "a case of differing visions - neither known to be better than the other", because at this point they really don't know which approach will work best. But I don't see anything insincere in this post. They need to fully commit to a single vision. The former cofounder did the right thing by leaving and making space for someone else who does share the vision to step in.

aml183 10y ago

I agree with you and even though their words may be a bit fluffed up, they really are transparent. It's hard to fault Buffer when they have been transparent with everything they do!

the_watcher 10y ago

Buffer is somewhat well-known for over the top, radical transparency. Not writing something like this would have been far more surprising if you've followed the company at all.

patja 10y ago

Old guy here. I am sure many like me find the whole premise of the company a bit repulsive. If you are going to throw all of your professional energy into creating and growing a company can't you find something more meaningful than just building a social media spam engine?

mememachine 10y ago
Whats wrong with this?
bookbinder 10y ago
Well it's hardly spam since clients are posting to their own social media accounts.
alexbanks 10y ago
Your opinion about the validity of the work has nothing to do with the potential growth and success of the company/product. Being a plumber may not be "meaningful" to some, but it's definitely possible to be successful and make a lot of money doing it.

nstart 10y ago

I work at buffer. Some slight perspective. From all my interactions with Joel, I could describe him as soft spoken and very sensitive towards people around him. For him Leo and Sunil really did cross the boundaries of being simply coo and CTO. They have all been extremely close friends. For him this blog post probably isn't just a public announcement. It cements in the fact that it's actually happening. The transition period is closing off. His close friends whose advice he could always rely on are no longer there and that weight of being responsible for close to 80 people suddenly feels a lot heavier on him. I totally understand where you are coming from. All I'd like to pass on is the thought that it's not just numbers and back to a great Friday for him (or any of us). He's human too. And we humans need some space to take in and deal with complex emotions. That's kind of the bigger feel to what this blog post is about :). Cheers!

eeeeeeeeeeeee 10y ago
This is a great comment. It's so easy to be hyper-critical when you're critiquing words on a screen and not realizing there is a human behind those words.
bootload 10y ago
" For him this blog post probably isn't just a public announcement. It cements in the fact that it's actually happening." Excellent observation.

nilkn 10y ago

I've been at a startup when a high-level executive/cofounder abruptly left with nothing but a short and vague email, and it was very unsettling to me and immediately made me worry about the long-term health of the company and whether or not there was hidden infighting at the top. I think I would've felt a bit more comfortable with this sort of transparency, although I agree that ultimately it's still fairly vague and feels a bit rambling. I think most likely Buffer is just beginning a slow decline that will be drawn out for several years leading to either more downsizing or eventual death, and the two cofounders who left decided to get out now rather than ride that out. I don't see a major company acquiring Buffer's 100% remote team, but I could be wrong.

bookbinder 10y ago

> hundreds of words of emotive rambling and vague talk of journeys and values and euphemisms for simple concepts. I think for the new generation, vague emotional rhetoric has replaced old school business gibberish like "We need a paradigm shift" and so on. People like the idea of appearing to be open and honest without actually making themselves vulnerable by revealing their true thoughts and feelings.

getpost 10y ago

Agree with CPLX. It is improper to speak for others in this way. If Leo and Sunil want to post about their plans, they may do so. "Leo and Sunil asked me to to say this...." would be fine, although still TMI. A customer might think, 'Wow the company is falling apart and the remaining founder seems lost in his own world. I should find another vendor.'

webmaven 10y ago
> It is improper to speak for others in this way. If Leo and Sunil want to post about their plans, they may do so. ICYMI, the departing executives in question did post about their plans, and (similarly to the OP) with a bit of reflection on their part: https://hackernoon.com/after-6-incredible-years-at-buffer-im-moving-on-to-something-else-e06ec40c3f16 https://hackernoon.com/after-6-incredible-years-at-buffer-im... https://medium.com/@sunils34/parting-ways-with-buffer-ee016bc2098d https://medium.com/@sunils34/parting-ways-with-buffer-ee016b... There doesn't seem to be any reason for customers to be concerned, and the contemplative style of the post is by no means new. On the contrary, it would be a matter of concern if the post wasn't primarily concerned with a retrospective on how they got to where they are today as well as individual styles, goals, personalities, and emotional fulfilment.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

jwilliams 10y ago

Buffer is all about social media. What drives their product/business is sharing and transparency -- Collaboration, openness, sharing is what make their product thrive. It's also the values, conversations and content that their typical customer (social media, influencers, mavens, etc, etc) loves to engage in. They live that through the company, their values - which manifests in content and transparency like this. Makes total sense to me. Perhaps not right in other contexts (likely the ones you value or are used to) -- but in general aligning your company culture, values, brand and approach to your market makes a lot of sense.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]