10 ms·

> In the US, and other countries where you drive on the right side of the road, right turns are free, but for a left turn you need to wait for a green light. I

by mstade 10y ago

> In the US, and other countries where you drive on the right side of the road, right turns are free, but for a left turn you need to wait for a green light. I don't know of any other country than the US where turning right on red is allowed, unless there's specific signage or additional traffic lights to allow it. Indeed, the turn-on-red rule in the US seems to work inverse to how I've seen it elsewhere – i.e. it's always allowed unless there's specific signage saying it isn't. I was just in the US, and I love their turn-on-red rules, and I kept thinking that sometimes it's got to be smarter to turn right than go straight ahead, when there's a red light, even if it may be a longer drive. Glad to see someone took the time to figure this out.

pc86 10y ago
> Indeed, the turn-on-red rule in the US seems to work inverse to how I've seen it elsewhere – i.e. it's always allowed unless there's specific signage saying it isn't. Driving laws vary widely by state. You cannot say "$x is [il]legal in the US" because it's likely there's at least one state where the inverse is true. That being said, my state does allow turning on red unless it's explicitly prohibited, including left turns if you are on a one-way street turning onto a one-way street. > I kept thinking that sometimes it's got to be smarter to turn right than go straight ahead, when there's a red light, even if it may be a longer drive. The city I live in actually times the light cycles to prevent this, you will end up exactly where you would have been had you not turned, or behind.
- JakeTheAndroid 10y ago
  Having been across the US, I would say that the right-on-red rule is so consistent that you can say it's legal in the US. It's just a rule with an exception.
  - lorenzhs 10y ago
    According to Wikipedia [1], "as of 1992, right turn on red is governed federally by 42 U.S.C. § 6322(c)", which reads [2]: > Each proposed State energy conservation plan to be eligible > for Federal assistance under this part shall include [...] > a traffic law or regulation which, to the maximum extent > practicable consistent with safety, permits the operator of a > motor vehicle to turn such vehicle right at a red stop light > after stopping and to turn such vehicle left from a one-way > street onto a one-way street at a red light after stopping I'm not sure how exactly the NYC exception works. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turn_on_red https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turn_on_red [2] https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/6322 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/6322
    - gumby 10y ago
      New York got to be the exception (!?)
    - jack9 10y ago
      This is not "governed federally". Making a state eligible for Federal assistance is not the same as being a legal requirement. How you confuse these things is an example a simple comprehension failure or possibly someone who doesn't understand US law to any degree. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turn_on_red https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turn_on_red shows a handy little map in the bottom right highlighting the differences between states.
      - crysin 10y ago
        If you're talking about the US map near the bottom of the page that is specific to left turns on red, not right turns.
      - lorenzhs 10y ago
        The portion you take issue with is a quote from the same article that you're referring to, and clearly marked as such. I'm sorry that your "comprehension failure" insult backfired. By the way, the map on the bottom right is for left turns on red, which isn't the topic here.
Naga 10y ago
It is legal to turn right on a red light in Canada, except the Isle of Montreal. It actually used to be illegal in all of Quebec until 2003.
- snrplfth 10y ago
  And in Quebec, you still see people turning right on red lights while looking solely to the right, instead of looking for oncoming traffic from the left.
- digler999 10y ago
  in NYC right turn on red is illegal, and it makes sense due to the number of pedestrians.
helipad 10y ago
My brother came to Michigan to visit from the UK. After a few days he said: "So, I can go on a red light for a right turn, but sometimes I have to wait at a green light for a left turn?" It was then I realised how peculiar the signals in the US can be.
- bisby 10y ago
  If you have to cross lanes of traffic, you have to wait for a light. If you are merely "changing lanes" you just have to wait for right of way. (in my state at least) you're allowed to turn left from a one way to a one way on red, because you're not crossing any other lanes. So do the math... how many lanes are involved. If it's just "current lane" and "target lane", you can go when the coast is clear. If there are ANY other lanes involved, wait for a light.
- camiller 10y ago
  Flip side, having driven in England 20+ years ago. In England, when stopped at a red they politely blink a yellow light when your stop light is about to turn green. In the US not only do we not do that, but many localities put extended shields around the lights, polarized lenses, etc. To prevent you from knowing when your light is about to turn by observing the lights for the perpendicular street. In other words... England provides more information to the driver expecting the driver to use that information to make good driving decisions. The US hides information from drivers in an attempt to control their behavior because they don't trust the driver to make good driving decisions. and now I'm once again angry about it.....
  - rogerbinns 10y ago
    The majority of cars in the UK are manual (ie not automatic) gears. Consequently that forewarning gives the driver something to do as it does take a second or two to get into gear.
  - technofiend 10y ago
    It's apocryphal but my history professor stated US stoplights used to actually have the red to green warning in order to assist large trucks which need a few seconds to build momentum. It caused more wrecks because of red light runners not clearing the intersection in time and people with a fresh green light trying to immediately enter the same intersection.
dorfsmay 10y ago
Turning right on red is one of those idea that once you've been exposed to it you wonder why isn't everybody adopting it... A similar idea is the train system in Munich where they built their platforms such that they can open doors on both sides, making one side of the train the exit, and the other side the entrance. Ever since I saw that, every single time I wait for people getting off a crowded train, I wonder "Why?".
- alextheparrot 10y ago
  There's an elevator in one of the London tube stations like this (Everyone uses the elevator, like 150 stairs). Just makes so much sense, moves so many more people that way.
- snrplfth 10y ago
  It's not as commonly done because it's considerably more expensive to build triple platforms, and the bends required to make it work slow the train down and cause wear. It's good for high-capacity stations though.
  - frandroid 10y ago
    What bends?
    - snrplfth 10y ago
      When trains run in tunnels, or even when on aboveground rights-of-way, the rails are generally spaced very close together. A 3-platform station therefore requires the tracks to turn away from each other to make room for the central platform. They don't usually have to be that sharp, but they tend to be noticeably sharper than the turns in the route.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
  - dorfsmay 10y ago
    So it should be in every tube/metro/LRT station of every major metropolitan! I get that it's more expensive, but then train spend a lot less time in stations for people to load/unload.
fosco 10y ago
Keep in mind everywhere in NYC unless noted does not allow right on red. however on Long Island and in Upstate New York it is typically allowed unless noted. laws not only vary by state but also by locality [pardon if this is not the correct usage of the term]
f_allwein 10y ago
It's legal to turn right at a red light in parts of Germany (if there s a sign saying so at the traffic light). One of the few things that were adopted from East Germany after the reunification. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grünpfeil https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grünpfeil
poulsbohemian 10y ago
It gets even better -- you can also make an "Oregon left" - in Oregon it is legal to turn left on red if you are turning onto a one way street. http://www.oregonlive.com/commuting/index.ssf/2015/10/turn_left_on_red_the_devils_in.html http://www.oregonlive.com/commuting/index.ssf/2015/10/turn_l...
- TruthSHIFT 10y ago
  Georgia has this too. Who doesn't have this?
  - koenigdavidmj 10y ago
    In Washington we are advised pretty strongly that Oregon has this but California and Idaho very much do not. (Incidentally, highway on-ramps are considered one way streets for the purpose of this law.)
    - pitaj 10y ago
      You're wrong about Idaho. Here's a PDF source[1] of the official driving manual. Check out Turning At a Red Light on page 35. [1] http://itd.idaho.gov/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/driver_manual.pdf http://itd.idaho.gov/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/driver_manua...
- stevedt 10y ago
  In California you can turn left on red from a one-way to a one-way street.
  - pimlottc 10y ago
    Same in Ohio. Never heard it called an "Oregon left" before.
- jusuchin 10y ago
  In Milwaukee there are a few spots you can turn left on red technically "after stopping". The locations I know are freeway off-ramps onto one way streets, and simple left turns onto one way streets.
gumby 10y ago
> I don't know of any other country than the US where turning right on red is allowed The DDR (East Germany) had this law and IIRC it was one of the two things they tried to preserve in the unification agreement (the other was abortion rights). Neither survived.
arnarbi 10y ago
It's not just about turning on red. Even where that's not allowed, when the light is green the right turning traffic is less impeded and more cars pass through in a cycle. Those turning left have to wait longer for gaps in the oncoming traffic, in general at least.
serge2k 10y ago
Canada for starters.
michalskop 10y ago
It is common in Germany," too.
BrailleHunting 10y ago
ToR was not allowed in all states until the late 70's, especially back East. It's not like pedestrians have enough dangers to worry about. Popular expedience != sensible policies. Curiously also, only California allows motorcycle lane-splitting.

by mstade 10y ago

pc86 10y ago

> Indeed, the turn-on-red rule in the US seems to work inverse to how I've seen it elsewhere – i.e. it's always allowed unless there's specific signage saying it isn't. Driving laws vary widely by state. You cannot say "$x is [il]legal in the US" because it's likely there's at least one state where the inverse is true. That being said, my state does allow turning on red unless it's explicitly prohibited, including left turns if you are on a one-way street turning onto a one-way street. > I kept thinking that sometimes it's got to be smarter to turn right than go straight ahead, when there's a red light, even if it may be a longer drive. The city I live in actually times the light cycles to prevent this, you will end up exactly where you would have been had you not turned, or behind.

JakeTheAndroid 10y ago
Having been across the US, I would say that the right-on-red rule is so consistent that you can say it's legal in the US. It's just a rule with an exception.
- lorenzhs 10y ago
  According to Wikipedia [1], "as of 1992, right turn on red is governed federally by 42 U.S.C. § 6322(c)", which reads [2]: > Each proposed State energy conservation plan to be eligible > for Federal assistance under this part shall include [...] > a traffic law or regulation which, to the maximum extent > practicable consistent with safety, permits the operator of a > motor vehicle to turn such vehicle right at a red stop light > after stopping and to turn such vehicle left from a one-way > street onto a one-way street at a red light after stopping I'm not sure how exactly the NYC exception works. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turn_on_red https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turn_on_red [2] https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/6322 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/6322
  - gumby 10y ago
    New York got to be the exception (!?)
  - jack9 10y ago
    This is not "governed federally". Making a state eligible for Federal assistance is not the same as being a legal requirement. How you confuse these things is an example a simple comprehension failure or possibly someone who doesn't understand US law to any degree. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turn_on_red https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turn_on_red shows a handy little map in the bottom right highlighting the differences between states.
    - crysin 10y ago
      If you're talking about the US map near the bottom of the page that is specific to left turns on red, not right turns.
    - lorenzhs 10y ago
      The portion you take issue with is a quote from the same article that you're referring to, and clearly marked as such. I'm sorry that your "comprehension failure" insult backfired. By the way, the map on the bottom right is for left turns on red, which isn't the topic here.

Naga 10y ago

It is legal to turn right on a red light in Canada, except the Isle of Montreal. It actually used to be illegal in all of Quebec until 2003.

snrplfth 10y ago
And in Quebec, you still see people turning right on red lights while looking solely to the right, instead of looking for oncoming traffic from the left.
digler999 10y ago
in NYC right turn on red is illegal, and it makes sense due to the number of pedestrians.

helipad 10y ago

My brother came to Michigan to visit from the UK. After a few days he said: "So, I can go on a red light for a right turn, but sometimes I have to wait at a green light for a left turn?" It was then I realised how peculiar the signals in the US can be.

bisby 10y ago
If you have to cross lanes of traffic, you have to wait for a light. If you are merely "changing lanes" you just have to wait for right of way. (in my state at least) you're allowed to turn left from a one way to a one way on red, because you're not crossing any other lanes. So do the math... how many lanes are involved. If it's just "current lane" and "target lane", you can go when the coast is clear. If there are ANY other lanes involved, wait for a light.
camiller 10y ago
Flip side, having driven in England 20+ years ago. In England, when stopped at a red they politely blink a yellow light when your stop light is about to turn green. In the US not only do we not do that, but many localities put extended shields around the lights, polarized lenses, etc. To prevent you from knowing when your light is about to turn by observing the lights for the perpendicular street. In other words... England provides more information to the driver expecting the driver to use that information to make good driving decisions. The US hides information from drivers in an attempt to control their behavior because they don't trust the driver to make good driving decisions. and now I'm once again angry about it.....
- rogerbinns 10y ago
  The majority of cars in the UK are manual (ie not automatic) gears. Consequently that forewarning gives the driver something to do as it does take a second or two to get into gear.
- technofiend 10y ago
  It's apocryphal but my history professor stated US stoplights used to actually have the red to green warning in order to assist large trucks which need a few seconds to build momentum. It caused more wrecks because of red light runners not clearing the intersection in time and people with a fresh green light trying to immediately enter the same intersection.

dorfsmay 10y ago

Turning right on red is one of those idea that once you've been exposed to it you wonder why isn't everybody adopting it... A similar idea is the train system in Munich where they built their platforms such that they can open doors on both sides, making one side of the train the exit, and the other side the entrance. Ever since I saw that, every single time I wait for people getting off a crowded train, I wonder "Why?".

alextheparrot 10y ago
There's an elevator in one of the London tube stations like this (Everyone uses the elevator, like 150 stairs). Just makes so much sense, moves so many more people that way.
snrplfth 10y ago
It's not as commonly done because it's considerably more expensive to build triple platforms, and the bends required to make it work slow the train down and cause wear. It's good for high-capacity stations though.
- frandroid 10y ago
  What bends?
  - snrplfth 10y ago
    When trains run in tunnels, or even when on aboveground rights-of-way, the rails are generally spaced very close together. A 3-platform station therefore requires the tracks to turn away from each other to make room for the central platform. They don't usually have to be that sharp, but they tend to be noticeably sharper than the turns in the route.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
- dorfsmay 10y ago
  So it should be in every tube/metro/LRT station of every major metropolitan! I get that it's more expensive, but then train spend a lot less time in stations for people to load/unload.

fosco 10y ago

Keep in mind everywhere in NYC unless noted does not allow right on red. however on Long Island and in Upstate New York it is typically allowed unless noted. laws not only vary by state but also by locality [pardon if this is not the correct usage of the term]

f_allwein 10y ago

It's legal to turn right at a red light in parts of Germany (if there s a sign saying so at the traffic light). One of the few things that were adopted from East Germany after the reunification. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grünpfeil https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grünpfeil

poulsbohemian 10y ago

It gets even better -- you can also make an "Oregon left" - in Oregon it is legal to turn left on red if you are turning onto a one way street. http://www.oregonlive.com/commuting/index.ssf/2015/10/turn_left_on_red_the_devils_in.html http://www.oregonlive.com/commuting/index.ssf/2015/10/turn_l...

TruthSHIFT 10y ago
Georgia has this too. Who doesn't have this?
- koenigdavidmj 10y ago
  In Washington we are advised pretty strongly that Oregon has this but California and Idaho very much do not. (Incidentally, highway on-ramps are considered one way streets for the purpose of this law.)
  - pitaj 10y ago
    You're wrong about Idaho. Here's a PDF source[1] of the official driving manual. Check out Turning At a Red Light on page 35. [1] http://itd.idaho.gov/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/driver_manual.pdf http://itd.idaho.gov/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/driver_manua...
stevedt 10y ago
In California you can turn left on red from a one-way to a one-way street.
- pimlottc 10y ago
  Same in Ohio. Never heard it called an "Oregon left" before.
jusuchin 10y ago
In Milwaukee there are a few spots you can turn left on red technically "after stopping". The locations I know are freeway off-ramps onto one way streets, and simple left turns onto one way streets.

gumby 10y ago

> I don't know of any other country than the US where turning right on red is allowed The DDR (East Germany) had this law and IIRC it was one of the two things they tried to preserve in the unification agreement (the other was abortion rights). Neither survived.

arnarbi 10y ago

It's not just about turning on red. Even where that's not allowed, when the light is green the right turning traffic is less impeded and more cars pass through in a cycle. Those turning left have to wait longer for gaps in the oncoming traffic, in general at least.

serge2k 10y ago

Canada for starters.

michalskop 10y ago

It is common in Germany," too.

BrailleHunting 10y ago

ToR was not allowed in all states until the late 70's, especially back East. It's not like pedestrians have enough dangers to worry about. Popular expedience != sensible policies. Curiously also, only California allows motorcycle lane-splitting.