4 ms·

> None of those salaries listed are competitive with what a non-H1B (read citizen or permanent resident) would earn. As a new grad interviewing for software en

> None of those salaries listed are competitive with what a non-H1B (read citizen or permanent resident) would earn. As a new grad interviewing for software engineering positions at FB, Google, Etc., I make exactly the same amount as my U.S. peers who have also received offers. Moreover, how do you know that the SE level of the H1B hires is exactly that of the pool from which Indeed.com calculates their averages? What if the H1B program was taking in a huge amount of new grads right now and not as many senior positions? Then the H1B average would be different than the Indeed one. Moreover (again), as I make the same amount of money as a U.S new grad, my company would pay for Visa sponsorship, and even pays more to fly me in to interview. Not only that, they put me through more interviews, costing more engineers time.

the_commentary 10y ago
> What if the H1B program was taking in a huge amount of new grads right now and not as many senior positions? Then the program in turn wouldn't be abiding by the idea of the H1B program in the first place, which is to bring in people who have skills that can't be found in the US. You can hire new grads from the US just as easily as abroad, just maybe not at the artificially low prices that you want to pay them.
- dlp211 10y ago
  Except, in this context, Facebook, Google, Microsoft, Amazon, Apple, and others aren't underpaying anyone. Also being a new grad != employable at one of these companies, and no, training isn't going to help them either.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
ep103 10y ago
Congratulations. You're not the average.
ones_and_zeros 10y ago
This gets to the crux of the issue with the H1B system as it relates to age discrimination. Why are we hiring fresh grads on a "best and brightest" visa? If the college degree from a US institution made them the best and brightest, why wasn't a citizen in that classroom seat? If they are truly geniuses why are they paid at entry level wages?
- fjdlwlv 10y ago
  Maybe there were no citizens who passed the entrance requirements to that college
- bradleyjg 10y ago
  H1B is not the best and brightest visa. That's O for temporary visas and EB1 for permanent visas.
- soldarnal 10y ago
  The "best and brightest" visa is the O-1. The H-1B visa is a "specialty occupation" visa, defined roughly as an occupation that requires a Bachelor's degree in a particular field of study.
anarcticpuffin 10y ago
One of the arguments I see repeated here against hiring H1-B junior developers is that they: a) Aren't qualified as the best and brightest since they're still inexperienced b) Took a university seat from an American citizen [1] Firstly, my response to these is going to treat the $65k/year as a soon-to-be-solved problem. It's making the whole program look bad at the expense of talented people and the American economy, and luckily has bi-partisan support for reform. I want to offer a thought. As a country, we want the world's greatest minds to reside here. Those minds generate ideas, make local companies stronger and, at the most basic level, generate tax revenue greater than the average citizen. Creating a pipeline to bring in the best minds in the world is a net benefit for US citizens. Giving up /some/ university seats to attract the brightest from other countries makes sense. Giving up /some/ entry level roles to retaining those minds in the country, to which we've already lent our world-leading educational institutions to, also makes sense. I've been in a hiring position with a Global 500 company that considers H1-B applicants. At no point during any of my conversations with other hiring managers did we ever consider "Oh, let's take that applicant, they'll cost less because of their Visa." If anything, some folks might hold off because they don't want to deal with the uncertainty of losing a key employee because of a lottery. If companies wanted cheap labor, they'd just use outsourcing. So it's possible H1-B applicants (excepting cheap consultants, see [1]) have a higher bar to clear than citizen/resident candidates. The interesting point here, is that there's 3 types of nationalism in this discussion and I find it funny that we're not self aware about it (apologies, my bias is apparent in my descriptions): 1) Protectionist nationalism - "This is America and AMERICAN people born [or naturalized] here deserve our companies' jobs." 2) Opportunist nationalism - "America and its citizens as a whole are better off with more high-skilled H1-B immigrants because we can take the skilled horsepower other countries would otherwise possess." 3) Anti-nationalism - I don't see this one mentioned much, but what happens to the countries America is soaking up talent /from/? Is it a good thing that one country attracts the brightest from all around the world, rather than distributing skill evenly? My personal opinions have hovered around type 2 (opportunist nationalism). I've considered type 3 and think it deserves more consideration. Does anyone have data on what happens to the countries America sources talent from? Is this one of those magic win-win scenarios, or the more intuitive win-lose? Apologies, this is lightly edited as it's long-winded and during work hours.

the_commentary 10y ago

> What if the H1B program was taking in a huge amount of new grads right now and not as many senior positions? Then the program in turn wouldn't be abiding by the idea of the H1B program in the first place, which is to bring in people who have skills that can't be found in the US. You can hire new grads from the US just as easily as abroad, just maybe not at the artificially low prices that you want to pay them.

dlp211 10y ago
Except, in this context, Facebook, Google, Microsoft, Amazon, Apple, and others aren't underpaying anyone. Also being a new grad != employable at one of these companies, and no, training isn't going to help them either.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

ep103 10y ago

Congratulations. You're not the average.

ones_and_zeros 10y ago

This gets to the crux of the issue with the H1B system as it relates to age discrimination. Why are we hiring fresh grads on a "best and brightest" visa? If the college degree from a US institution made them the best and brightest, why wasn't a citizen in that classroom seat? If they are truly geniuses why are they paid at entry level wages?

fjdlwlv 10y ago
Maybe there were no citizens who passed the entrance requirements to that college
bradleyjg 10y ago
H1B is not the best and brightest visa. That's O for temporary visas and EB1 for permanent visas.
soldarnal 10y ago
The "best and brightest" visa is the O-1. The H-1B visa is a "specialty occupation" visa, defined roughly as an occupation that requires a Bachelor's degree in a particular field of study.

anarcticpuffin 10y ago

One of the arguments I see repeated here against hiring H1-B junior developers is that they: a) Aren't qualified as the best and brightest since they're still inexperienced b) Took a university seat from an American citizen [1] Firstly, my response to these is going to treat the $65k/year as a soon-to-be-solved problem. It's making the whole program look bad at the expense of talented people and the American economy, and luckily has bi-partisan support for reform. I want to offer a thought. As a country, we want the world's greatest minds to reside here. Those minds generate ideas, make local companies stronger and, at the most basic level, generate tax revenue greater than the average citizen. Creating a pipeline to bring in the best minds in the world is a net benefit for US citizens. Giving up /some/ university seats to attract the brightest from other countries makes sense. Giving up /some/ entry level roles to retaining those minds in the country, to which we've already lent our world-leading educational institutions to, also makes sense. I've been in a hiring position with a Global 500 company that considers H1-B applicants. At no point during any of my conversations with other hiring managers did we ever consider "Oh, let's take that applicant, they'll cost less because of their Visa." If anything, some folks might hold off because they don't want to deal with the uncertainty of losing a key employee because of a lottery. If companies wanted cheap labor, they'd just use outsourcing. So it's possible H1-B applicants (excepting cheap consultants, see [1]) have a higher bar to clear than citizen/resident candidates. The interesting point here, is that there's 3 types of nationalism in this discussion and I find it funny that we're not self aware about it (apologies, my bias is apparent in my descriptions): 1) Protectionist nationalism - "This is America and AMERICAN people born [or naturalized] here deserve our companies' jobs." 2) Opportunist nationalism - "America and its citizens as a whole are better off with more high-skilled H1-B immigrants because we can take the skilled horsepower other countries would otherwise possess." 3) Anti-nationalism - I don't see this one mentioned much, but what happens to the countries America is soaking up talent /from/? Is it a good thing that one country attracts the brightest from all around the world, rather than distributing skill evenly? My personal opinions have hovered around type 2 (opportunist nationalism). I've considered type 3 and think it deserves more consideration. Does anyone have data on what happens to the countries America sources talent from? Is this one of those magic win-win scenarios, or the more intuitive win-lose? Apologies, this is lightly edited as it's long-winded and during work hours.