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It's not the business responsibility to train Americans/Europeans/Indians. A business has to respond to it's shareholders who don't ask the question "How many o

It's not the business responsibility to train Americans/Europeans/Indians. A business has to respond to it's shareholders who don't ask the question "How many of our nationality/religion/race have you employed" but "What's the share price" It's the government's responsibility to train people and H1b failure is government's responsibility. Most companies dont even pay tax, do you really expect them to hire ONLY Americans? Why would they when they can hire/outsource their work for half the cost. Most big business have at least half their profits from outside the US. I remember IBM Global surpassing US profits when I used to work for IBM. Cracking down on H1b is a bandaid over brain cancer. Fix the rot in education system, make education free, invest in tech else the big Businesses have no obligation to stay in US and pay more to do the same job (H1b or locals)

godzillabrennus 10y ago
Businesses used to hire and train. There was once loyalty within corporate America. That is dead.
- ganeshkrishnan 10y ago
  >Businesses used to hire and train. There was once loyalty within corporate America. That is dead. I cannot debate this. However given our current situation and seeing our progress the rightful way would be for the government to invest more into education. Saudades is not going to help us. Being more pragmatic and planning accordingly will be much more beneficial
  - cmdrfred 10y ago
    >invest more into education I suggest the opposite. The reason college tuition is so high is because the government backs those loans. Remove the government backing of loans thus lessening the availability of capitol to the educational system and I think you will find it will become vastly more affordable.
    - thewhitetulip 10y ago
      I am in India and the govt doesn't back any student loan yet college tuitions have ridiculously skyrocketed, heck, I paied less for my one yr college tuition than qhat my cousin is paying for his daughter's playgroup (I paid 50k INR for 1yr tuition and my neice's playgeoup charges 75k INR, don't know what the fuck they teach)
      - cmdrfred 10y ago
        That's less than $800 US isn't it? To compare a year of school here probably averages 10K USD a year or 668,325 INR.
        thewhitetulip 10y ago
        No, it is around $ 1250 I am talking about playgroup!! And 75k is the least costly PLAYGROUP, playgroup is before starting nursery :P Oh my God, 10k $ per year! That is way too costly, Indian colleges have reached 1/3 or your school's fees, my counterparts at private institutions were paying 1/3 and I have heard that people now in college are paying as far as 1/2 of what you have mentioned, so it is catching up.
    - pm90 10y ago
      > The reason college tuition is so high is because the government backs those loans. This is patently false. Which nullifies the rest of your suggestion.
      - cmdrfred 10y ago
        https://studentloans.gov https://studentloans.gov suggests otherwise. They are called subsidized loans. More data here: https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/types/loans/subsidized-unsubsidized https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/types/loans/subsidized-unsubsid...
        pm90 10y ago
        I am not debating the existence of subsidized loans. I am questioning the correlation b/w subsidized loans and high tuition which you seem to be making. e.g. https://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/05/opinion/sunday/the-real-reason-college-tuition-costs-so-much.html https://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/05/opinion/sunday/the-real-r...
randomdata 10y ago
> make education free How is it not already? The tech industry in particular has made sure it is.
lostboys67 10y ago
Why do you think is it not employers responsibility to train its staff ? do you imagine the stork delivers trained employees in the night ?
adekok 10y ago
> "What's the share price" Which is at least partially based on public perception of the company. > It's the government's responsibility to train people That's... a weird thing to say. I like to think of myself as an adult. I chose the discipline to study, got loans (yes), graduated, and paid them off. The university I went to was private. At no time did the government tell me what to do. It is the peoples responsibility to go into programs that will get the decent jobs. If those programs are full, they can ask for new colleges or universities to be made. Or, they can study themselves. I've hired a number of self-taught programmers. They're not much different from people with university degrees.
gjdickens 10y ago
Shareholder Theory is not the only lens to view the responsibilities of a business. Stakeholder Theory describes a much wider range of accountable parties including employees, communities, government, and the environment. Under Stakeholder Theory, a company would indeed have an obligation to its employees and community to train new workers. (see corporate governance in Germany as an example)

godzillabrennus 10y ago

Businesses used to hire and train. There was once loyalty within corporate America. That is dead.

ganeshkrishnan 10y ago
>Businesses used to hire and train. There was once loyalty within corporate America. That is dead. I cannot debate this. However given our current situation and seeing our progress the rightful way would be for the government to invest more into education. Saudades is not going to help us. Being more pragmatic and planning accordingly will be much more beneficial
- cmdrfred 10y ago
  >invest more into education I suggest the opposite. The reason college tuition is so high is because the government backs those loans. Remove the government backing of loans thus lessening the availability of capitol to the educational system and I think you will find it will become vastly more affordable.
  - thewhitetulip 10y ago
    I am in India and the govt doesn't back any student loan yet college tuitions have ridiculously skyrocketed, heck, I paied less for my one yr college tuition than qhat my cousin is paying for his daughter's playgroup (I paid 50k INR for 1yr tuition and my neice's playgeoup charges 75k INR, don't know what the fuck they teach)
    - cmdrfred 10y ago
      That's less than $800 US isn't it? To compare a year of school here probably averages 10K USD a year or 668,325 INR.
      - thewhitetulip 10y ago
        No, it is around $ 1250 I am talking about playgroup!! And 75k is the least costly PLAYGROUP, playgroup is before starting nursery :P Oh my God, 10k $ per year! That is way too costly, Indian colleges have reached 1/3 or your school's fees, my counterparts at private institutions were paying 1/3 and I have heard that people now in college are paying as far as 1/2 of what you have mentioned, so it is catching up.
  - pm90 10y ago
    > The reason college tuition is so high is because the government backs those loans. This is patently false. Which nullifies the rest of your suggestion.
    - cmdrfred 10y ago
      https://studentloans.gov https://studentloans.gov suggests otherwise. They are called subsidized loans. More data here: https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/types/loans/subsidized-unsubsidized https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/types/loans/subsidized-unsubsid...
      - pm90 10y ago
        I am not debating the existence of subsidized loans. I am questioning the correlation b/w subsidized loans and high tuition which you seem to be making. e.g. https://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/05/opinion/sunday/the-real-reason-college-tuition-costs-so-much.html https://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/05/opinion/sunday/the-real-r...

randomdata 10y ago

> make education free How is it not already? The tech industry in particular has made sure it is.

lostboys67 10y ago

Why do you think is it not employers responsibility to train its staff ? do you imagine the stork delivers trained employees in the night ?

adekok 10y ago

> "What's the share price" Which is at least partially based on public perception of the company. > It's the government's responsibility to train people That's... a weird thing to say. I like to think of myself as an adult. I chose the discipline to study, got loans (yes), graduated, and paid them off. The university I went to was private. At no time did the government tell me what to do. It is the peoples responsibility to go into programs that will get the decent jobs. If those programs are full, they can ask for new colleges or universities to be made. Or, they can study themselves. I've hired a number of self-taught programmers. They're not much different from people with university degrees.

gjdickens 10y ago

Shareholder Theory is not the only lens to view the responsibilities of a business. Stakeholder Theory describes a much wider range of accountable parties including employees, communities, government, and the environment. Under Stakeholder Theory, a company would indeed have an obligation to its employees and community to train new workers. (see corporate governance in Germany as an example)