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It's very amusing to see people down vote my comment because what this demonstrates that there's too many free speech absolutists on HN that can't deal with the

It's very amusing to see people down vote my comment because what this demonstrates that there's too many free speech absolutists on HN that can't deal with the real possibility that some speech is utterly worthless. The fact they down vote at all proves that this is the default view and not the false narrative that somehow we should offer up our minds or material goods to an opposing point of view. There's never been a gray area in this regard despite what Shopify's staff believes (and which is proven here). There's some views or ideas that are completely false and therefore not worth discussing beyond an academic exercise. Now, maybe if those down voters would have the courage to admit as much then maybe we can move on as how best to deal with such things beyond sitting on our hands and pretend that "more speech" actually changes society for the better/worse (hint: it doesn't, go look at any breakdown of historical movements to see why).

ng12 10y ago
> free speech absolutists on HN that can't deal with the real possibility that some speech is utterly worthless I think lots of speech is worthless but just because I think that doesn't mean it needs to be censored. If I didn't find any real value in your post I'd still defend your right to post it. Personally, I have a very real problem with online communities bullying people into using their power to further political goals and so I applaud Shopify's response.
- norea-armozel 10y ago
  >I think lots of speech is worthless but just because I think that doesn't mean it needs to be censored. But the fact that a mod on a site or a site owner deciding not to let you use their site as a platform doesn't diminish your ability to speak. The Internet by design gets around this problem. Don't expect the every site to act as a mirror to share all beliefs. Let site owners do what they will (and I respect the people at Shopify to do their own decisions even though I think it does make them complicit with bigots). >If I didn't find any real value in your post I'd still defend your right to post it. That's the problem, we're not owed a right to post anywhere but on our sites. Anywhere else that we're not paying for access or are an owner (jointly or wholly) is a privilege. We're guests here and anywhere else like that. >Personally, I have a very real problem with online communities bullying people into using their power to further political goals and so I applaud Shopify's response. And I think their choice is a naive one because it assumes all economic actions are value free. Every choice they make at this point is a political and moral act. To state otherwise is to lie to one's self. It's better to stand by a set of values that they think are compatible with their venture than to pretend they have no values.
- robbiemitchell 10y ago
  A government censors. A company moderates/prohibits/etc.
  - ng12 10y ago
    Patently untrue (by definition) and also an incredibly dangerous thing to say when non-governmental agencies control such a huge portion of information dissemination.
deleted 10y ago
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ng12 10y ago

> free speech absolutists on HN that can't deal with the real possibility that some speech is utterly worthless I think lots of speech is worthless but just because I think that doesn't mean it needs to be censored. If I didn't find any real value in your post I'd still defend your right to post it. Personally, I have a very real problem with online communities bullying people into using their power to further political goals and so I applaud Shopify's response.

norea-armozel 10y ago
>I think lots of speech is worthless but just because I think that doesn't mean it needs to be censored. But the fact that a mod on a site or a site owner deciding not to let you use their site as a platform doesn't diminish your ability to speak. The Internet by design gets around this problem. Don't expect the every site to act as a mirror to share all beliefs. Let site owners do what they will (and I respect the people at Shopify to do their own decisions even though I think it does make them complicit with bigots). >If I didn't find any real value in your post I'd still defend your right to post it. That's the problem, we're not owed a right to post anywhere but on our sites. Anywhere else that we're not paying for access or are an owner (jointly or wholly) is a privilege. We're guests here and anywhere else like that. >Personally, I have a very real problem with online communities bullying people into using their power to further political goals and so I applaud Shopify's response. And I think their choice is a naive one because it assumes all economic actions are value free. Every choice they make at this point is a political and moral act. To state otherwise is to lie to one's self. It's better to stand by a set of values that they think are compatible with their venture than to pretend they have no values.
robbiemitchell 10y ago
A government censors. A company moderates/prohibits/etc.
- ng12 10y ago
  Patently untrue (by definition) and also an incredibly dangerous thing to say when non-governmental agencies control such a huge portion of information dissemination.

deleted 10y ago

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