12 ms·

A secret of many urban 20-somethings: Their parents help with the rent

81 points by golfstrom 10y ago

johnchristopher 10y ago
Been there. As one of the 20-something whose parents didn't help with the rent. Two consequences: - really tough discussions with some friends and acquaintances once I realised their parents heavily subsidized their way of life while they were putting the social persona of young working adult being independent and nagging me about when I was going to buy my first car or why I was always the one who made it through the whole night with one glass of beer - really hard to move up in the adequate social circles and no care-free attitude which led to a much harder job hunt, grimmer prospects in relationships (partly cost me the love of my life) and way too much stress to be healthy I don't blame people for being helped though, that's not my point.
- grx 10y ago
  Why didn't they help?
  - Godel_unicode 10y ago
    I'm not sure this is a polite question to ask; the odds of digging up pain seem pretty high.
    - thrwy000 10y ago
      Especially if they help your sibling and not you...
  - dehugger 10y ago
    Many parents (mine included) say "if you aren't in school pay your own way". Once you are out of school, regardless if your wage is still barely above minimum, you are on your own.
    - myowncrapulence 10y ago
      Same. I come from middle class parents who could certainly afford to pay my way but chose to make me learn how to stand on my own feet. Certainly strips the world of its sheen when you see how people treat you if you are perceived as poor. Certainly makes you realize who your true friends are.
    - thatfunkymunki 10y ago
      I faced a similar fate- after I didn't finish college, I joined the Air Force and have been 100% financially independent since.
  - johnchristopher 10y ago
    Well.. You edited the question before I could see it so now you got me curious :). Feel free to shoot, this is the internet and a semi-anonymous persona.
    - grx 10y ago
      Thanks for your reply, I re-edited it back. I'm just curious if it was a personal decision of your parents or if the circumstances were the reason, sorry if this is too personal!
  - rjeli 10y ago
    not OP, but I dropped out of school to come work in the Bay and my parents did not support that
  - khedoros1 10y ago
    Since around the time I was 15 or so, my parents told me that they'd pay for 4 years of college (no more than that) and that I'd be paying if I took longer than that to graduate. It was also clear that I'd be welcome to live at (their) home if I needed to, although I'd be expected to find some kind of job and pay rent. I took 2 quarters extra to finish, but also left school with a job lined up. My father especially has always been a "live within your means" guy, and his intention was always that I should choose somewhere to live and work that I could afford on my own.
  - jlardinois 10y ago
    I'm surprised no one's yet answered the obvious and common "they can't afford to."
  - cmdrfred 10y ago
    My dad is a meth addict who lives with his mother and my mother is an alcoholic who works at a grocery store. Not everyone has that opportunity.
  - k-mcgrady 10y ago
    Not OP but same situation. Two reasons: 1. Parents can't afford to help (although that doesn't stop them offering). 2. I don't feel good about it. It's my choice to live in an expensive city - there is no reason at all I can't live somewhere less expensive - so I should be able to do it on my own. This is partly a pride thing but also I just wouldn't feel good taking money from family so that I have the budget to enjoy myself and socialise more. The people I know who have their parents help with rent either have decent paying jobs and want to have a really nice lifestyle (i.e. they really don't need that money) or are students who refuse to get a part time job (no excuse for that particularly when you're on your first or second masters).
  - johnchristopher 10y ago
    tldr; Why didn't they help ? Because they didn't and couldn't know how. Well, to make it short (it would take a book to get into the details and the analysis) my parents had their first child for the wrong reasons. That backfired later on when the unresolved conflicts and the toxic relationship between all of us degraded the family's capacity to face challenges in an healthy way and I had to take/was given the black sheep role. A vicious circle of saviour/victim had been in place from an early age and I was too young as a child to escape it (even though they were adults they were too young as well to get around it without outside help which they didn't think they needed at that time). They were 36 when I was 18. Mother divorced biological father when I was 7 and he died some months later in an accident that was covered as a suicide (go figure). So, something was always fishy in how we interacted with each other. Mother remarried a man who was courting her in their high school years. Turns out he was an alcoholic like my father was. Not the stereotyped violent alcoholic. The sad kind, the one we ignore the changes in behaviour and the fact he is lying at 2 in the afternoon on the bathroom floor, haha let's laugh about it. Alcohol wasn't the problem, it's the facade and the make-believe game that everything is alright that is messing up the relationship. The man is okay but totally lacks the ability to express feelings (I won't go into his family situation but it explains some of his behaviour of course). So I was the silent kind about all of it but unexplained anxiety and inadequacy took its toll on the way we built the family (but I was too young to get that and thought I was the one who was malfunctioning) (which I was anyway but it was not completely my fault) and how we/I expressed our/my needs/wants/desires. Of course both me and my brother were told we were `mature for your age`. Which can have the same consequences as those children obliged to take on their parent's emotional responsibilities and play the parents. That's just a very rough picture of the whole thing. My brother suffered from it as well but in a different way (much more closer to them but he messed up his studies nevertheless) (I finished my BS anyway, yada me) (I was the one sent to shrinks of course) (I really dig the role theory in psychology). And then there's the whole taboo thing about money in society in general and in my family in particular. So why didn't they help ? Because they didn't and couldn't know how. And because I couldn't ask them and didn't dare ask them. For example I spent a year eating sugar on bread and ketchup on pasta. Lost a teeth in the process :D Don't do that :). Sorry, it must be even more teasing now than before. That's because these kind of stories takes time to write down in a way that makes sense and english isn't my first language so I can't fiddle too much with nuances. edit: to clarify things: yes they could afford to help. I don't think that once I had my first job they would have helped me money wise on a regular basis but when I was in HS and uni they definitely had the resources to do so.
- sverige 10y ago
  The people you think you want to hang around with in your 20s can seem really ridiculous when you're in your 40s and 50s, and I say that as someone who ran with some people in my 20s who most here would recognize immediately. Those who achieved these things received almost no parental assistance when we were in our 20s. Many of those who were subsidized have gone on to spectacularly mediocre careers. With regard to the job search, work on reducing stress. That carefree attitude that helps in getting job offers is directly (and sometimes geometrically) proportional to your ability to recognize all of the good things you have at any given moment. Sometimes that includes changing (not lowering) expectations. I say all of this with the caveat that 1) fame and fortune are overrated as human goods, especially by young people; and 2) I am neither famous nor wealthy, but I am exceedingly happy with my life compared to my 20s. I'm now in my 50s and generally successful in curbing my urge to bail out my 28-year-old daughter out of the messes she sometimes makes. Edit: But I have been there a couple of times where it was help her or she ends up on the streets.
  - reloop 10y ago
    To keep it polite and short, that's really not how the world works anymore. These days your (at least financial) success in life is very much correlated with the wealth of your parents. If you're from Sweden (as your username would indicate) you can take Stockholm as an example. My non-independent friend (and their parents) there are millionaires from housing appreciation and savings, while my independent friends are are spending all their salaries on renting short lease 3x normal rent sublets.
    - charlesdm 10y ago
      Just because you inherit some capital doesn't mean you are actually able to use it to make more. Actually, most people can't, meaning the only thing they can do is spend it. How pathetic is that? If you count success in life as buying a house with money you were given, great. But that isn't success. I don't even know what that is honestly. The middle class is disappearing. Either you know how to make money (and that's not by working a job) or you don't. If you don't, you'll eventually be replaced by software, or a robot, or your job will be optimised away, or you will have to compete with 50 other people who want the same job because less jobs will be available in the future. The only thing that isn't disappearing is having great ideas. Great ideas, combined with an interest in executing, generally lead to freedom in life and (some) wealth.
- ClassyJacket 10y ago
  "grimmer prospects in relationships (partly cost me the love of my life) " I'm sorry for that. I can sympathize slightly. Rich people really don't get it. Yeah. Me last week on the way to a strip club: 'Who's paying for this taxi? Are we going far? Do we have to pay to get in?' Fried (girl I ALMOST dated): 'Oh my god you're SO cheap, you're such a killjoy, just stop worrying about the money blah blah blah.' Yeah, I probably should've relaxed and been more sociable. But it's easy for them to say that stuff, when their parents pay for their 400$ a week apartment in the city. Meanwhile my parents in their 60s struggle to figure out how they can ever retire without starving. Plus there's the 3+ hours a day lost to travel and the inconvenience of sharing a house with someone else. I'm not poor, I was born in a first world country and am very lucky. But people whose parents pay for their housing don't get how easy they have it even above people like me. I could start working full time and get a nice apartment close to the city no problem. But then I won't be saving any money, won't be going back to university and doing a PhD, won't be starting my own business, and won't be helping my parents retire. I could continue to work less and try to start my own business, which is what I've chosen. But this way I don't get my apartment in the city and can't blow money on taxis and strip clubs and cocktails all the time. I can't even get my car fixed right now. My housemate is a smart and capable person with a pilot's licence, but after trying to get into a pathway to a good job for years (you need more than just the licence), started working full time in a warehouse to make ends meet. I've seen how he feels after work every day, he's not happy. I don't want to stall my life any longer. I try to remember that at least I'm not starving in Africa, and I don't blame my lack of a girlfriend or better friendships on money. But you can be socially impaired by having to pay rent, and it does suck when those little things happen. Seriously, screw Melbourne house prices and screw the politicians and lazy rich leeches that made it this way.
  - charlesdm 10y ago
    Screw working for someone? This personally took me a while realise: the world does not owe you anything. Start making your own way.
    - ClassyJacket 10y ago
      Can you quote the part where I said that? What I said was: "Seriously, screw Melbourne house prices and screw the politicians and lazy rich leeches that made it this way". I think it's pretty clear I'm talking about housing prices being driven up by laws that favour the rich, and landlords who buy up houses, contributing nothing to society.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- KurtMueller 10y ago
  > really hard to move up in the adequate social circles and no care-free attitude which led to a much harder job hunt, grimmer prospects in relationships (partly cost me the love of my life) and way too much stress to be healthy Seems like s/he's not actually the love of your life if s/he's willing to ditch you because of lack of money.
  - johnchristopher 10y ago
    More complicated than that. I held out on some common projects because money was a concern for me. At some point it's straining the relationship and the capacity to project ourselves in the future. Which sucks the life out of the party after some time.
- colanderman 10y ago
  > I don't blame people for being helped though, that's not my point. One can always refuse help.
grx 10y ago
Is this an American thing? It's pretty common in Germany, but I remember that foreigners often see us as the 'renters'-country (meaning the majority rents instead of owning a property), so there might be a difference. Just wondering why this seems an increasing thing in your cities. It's also no big secret that parents often support their children far beyond the school time if they are not able to apply for student loans (Bafög).
- clamprecht 10y ago
  I think owning your own home is (or was?) part of the "American Dream." See e.g. http://www.nytimes.com/1988/09/11/realestate/in-the-nation-why-owning-a-home-is-the-american-dream.html?pagewanted=all http://www.nytimes.com/1988/09/11/realestate/in-the-nation-w...
- manarth 10y ago
  The renting is a bit of a red herring; the headline could easily read "Their parents help with the bills" (and in the article, it actually says "receive some financial assistance from their parents for living expenses", rather than rent specifically). It is a surprise to me that it's also common in Germany though: the perception that it is a 'renters'-country led me to believe that the rents were relatively affordable (as a result of protections like rent control). But I guess even "relatively affordable" can be challenging for an under-25 in today's economy.
- DanielleMolloy 10y ago
  One significant difference is of course that in Germany universities are free, so the overall financial burden of education is not nearly as high as in the U.S. If you stay away from the expensive cities (Munich, Hamburg) or their centers and live in outskirts or other cities with good universities like Berlin or Leipzig, rents are not really that expensive. I paid 150€ / month for a small central room in a shared apartment in a German university town, which I could pay for completely with a student assistantship. Most rents for rooms in shared flats are in the range 200€ - 450€ (depending on the area). Btw, BAFöG has been such a successful model for Germany that one wishes every country would introduce such a system.
- 10y ago
figers 10y ago
As a landlord of multiple properties in Boston I can confirm the parents pay the rent.
- jff 10y ago
  One of my college roommates would get a small stack of signed blank checks from his mother every time he went home, in order to pay the rent and whatever else came up. He kept them underneath his mattress, which we discovered when we had to move from one apartment to another and his ass never showed up to help.
  - Godel_unicode 10y ago
    And here I am, paranoid about having unsigned checks laying around because they have my account and ACH # on them. Other people's tolerance for risk always amazes me!
    - johnchristopher 10y ago
      Eh. Usage of checks in the US always puzzled me but now that we have smartphones with direct access to our bank and it seems even weirder to still do things with checks (vs cash).
      - khedoros1 10y ago
        When I've used checks, it's been almost exclusively to pay bills for things that don't have an electronic payment system set up, and where I also don't want to drop $1500 cash into the landlord's mail slot for rent. I know that we're missing easy money transfer options that other countries have had for decades, though.
    - mahyarm 10y ago
      More like unawareness of risk.
    - beachstartup 10y ago
      if you have enough money, there is no risk. you simply call the bank, and tell them to credit you the money back, which they do immediately, and then they launch an investigation into the felony crime which occurred. they'll send you a couple of affidavits to sign in the mail later. it's even easier with a credit card because the money was never taken to begin with. and get this, with amex you don't even have to call, because they call you, and you tell them which charges you want deleted, while they send you a new card. not having money totally sucks in comparison.
lordCarbonFiber 10y ago
Subject to change while I parse the source data set, but I'm not sure their conclusions are sound. Specifically the reliance on averages and amortizing the existence of yearly lump sums to monthly assistance. And the wording of "has ever" so a single gift/loan now gets extended to reported as years of monthly assistance. For example, parents providing their child with first month's rent/security deposit for the first place after college I wouldn't say is indicative of "financial dependence". Especially considering the data was for 2013 when getting credit for short term loans as a young person was even harder than it is today. Feels more like another dressed up "entitled millennials living off those hard working boomers again".
- thatfunkymunki 10y ago
  Or worse- yet another article that attempts to make people feel bad for using the wealth they've obtained over the course of their life for making their children "privileged"
awinter-py 10y ago
Not sure how the article concludes that young adults don't tell their friends about family financial help. It's not a question on the PSID survey and it doesn't seem to be in the michigan PSC report. The secrecy of financial help is a really important claim because it affects how under-resourced college grads plan their 20s; irresponsible of the authors not to footnote this.
eli_gottlieb 10y ago
As a tenant in one property in Boston who receives no help from his parents, I deeply resent the ease with which you attained wealth by just renting out ever-rising Bostonian housing.
- Godel_unicode 10y ago
  Curious how you know it was easy? A colleague of mine is a landlord and it seems externally to be a huge pain. Definitely put me off of trying to do the same.
  - flubert 10y ago
    I'm sure it is just an oversight that the OP forgot to mention that he is currently heavily invested in the Boston rental market as a landlord.
  - acomjean 10y ago
    In my condo building a lot of people who have moved out (out of town, out of state) they keep renting their places out with the help of a local realtor/manager that takes a cut and is supposed to deal with stuff. They don't really, and the volunteer condo board ends up dealing with a lot of the loose ends. Based on the how much rent is in Boston are, there is a strong , strong, strong incentive to rent out. I could make about 3x my mortgage/fees by renting my place in cambridge which I bought early part of this century (of course where would I live...). Since we have about 50% owner occupied, and the tenants are paying a lot, so they expect a lot. Its becoming a city for rich people and students. I can understand the resentment. I think it hurts the region.
  - eli_gottlieb 10y ago
    As acomjean noted, if you can make 3x your mortgage/fees as a rentier, and the rents rise every single year, you're being easily buoyed upward by the market.
- cblock811 10y ago
  Renting out properties is a huge hassle. My family spent a lot of time in real estate and I got to hear the headaches (which is why I didn't follow in their footsteps). Frankly, I'm pretty sure you're just being bitter and aren't helping the conversation.
Godel_unicode 10y ago
This is an interesting counterpoint to all of the "government subsidies distort housing prices" arguments. Obviously family subsidies are very different than government subsidies, but I think they might have a similar effect on pricing. Especially for economicallt disadvantaged people trying to go it alone; you're now in a market (similar to college tuition or healthcare) where nobody pays full price except for you* *For large values of "nobody" and "you"
trjordan 10y ago
$3,000 a year is a weird number. Of course anything helps, but when rent is $1,000, $2,000, or even $3,000 / month, is that really make or break? I wonder if it's paying security deposits or first / last deposits. When I was 23, paying rent seemed doable, but digging up 3 months of rent all at one go was terrifying.
- macawfish 10y ago
  In many urban areas, rent is not $1000 a month, let alone $2000 or $3000. In smaller cities you can often find rooms for $250-$500, although that seems to be changing very quickly in my area. Jobs often pay less too.
- ars 10y ago
  > rent is $1,000, $2,000, or even $3,000 / month That's rent without roommates. I suspect people are sharing the rent with 3 other people, so $3,000 a month is about 1/3 of their rent.
  - trjordan 10y ago
    Ahhhh that's probably it. $300 / month is easily half the rent if you have a couple of roommates. ... which is exactly how I did it from 22-24, not sure how I forgot that.
pboutros 10y ago
>The choice of career path matters. Those in the art and design fields get the most help, an average of $3,600 a year. People who work in farming, construction, retail and personal services get the least. Am I wrong to assume that it isn't the career choice so much as how wealthy the parents are?
- twinkletwinkle 10y ago
  It probably correlates. People with wealthy supportive parents are more able to take a "less valuable" degree. Where value = market rate for your skills.
manacit 10y ago
This is interesting, but not altogether surprising. As an urban 20-something, my parents helped me my covering the lion's share of my college costs. Once that was over, it was an unspoken agreement that I was completely on my own. Fortunately, I graduated with a job offer in hand as a SWE in the city of my choice, but that is far from the norm for the graduating classes in many majors. If anything, I find the provided numbers feel too low - $250 a month in many metro areas is unlikely to be 'make it or break it' numbers (by my estimation). It's more that their parents are subsidizing a lifestyle in those urban areas. At any rate, it's hard to blame people for getting help from their parents, though I can't say I would be excited to do so for my kids after a certain age (though, of course, I don't have any).
- twinkletwinkle 10y ago
  It's an interesting balance. I'm the same as you, I received an incredible amount of help to pay for private college. I paid my way through grad school and now make a professional salary in an expensive city, entirely self supporting. I'm moderately proud of living below my means and also living "well". I'd also be proud to be able to help my theoretical children, so it's easy to see the "other side" of the argument as such.
macawfish 10y ago
This makes me think hard about universal basic income. If average incomes went up, how long would it take for those with monopolies on basic needs to raise the prices? Not long, I'm sure. Unless rentier capitalism is somehow cut out of the picture, if the government provided $10,000/yr, then $10,000/yr could very quickly become the new "poverty". If banks (via landlords' debts) are squeezing people now, whats stopping them from taking peoples' basic income too? Don't get me wrong, I recognize the need for something like basic income, but rentier capitalism is suffocating peoples lives right now, and I have a hard time seeing how universal basic income is going to stop that.
- mindslight 10y ago
  In fact, basic income is actually just a continuation of the same inflationary alchemy that's been eroding the middle class for decades. This is why a seemingly revolutionary idea is getting so much press - because it actually isn't revolutionary at all, but a doubling down on the status quo!
  - gnaritas 10y ago
    > basic income is actually just a continuation of the same inflationary alchemy It's no such thing; not remotely. BI isn't new money, it's simply a redistribution of money from those with more to those with less. It won't increase the money supply and thus doesn't cause inflation.
    - AnimalMuppet 10y ago
      Yes and no. Say I'm a billionaire (I wish). I've got all this money. It's not going into food and rent. (OK, a tiny amount is going into food, but I can only eat three meals a day. And "rent" is more likely buying multi-million-dollar homes.) My money's in investments, maybe some luxuries. Now we go to BI. Now millions of what used to be my money are going to low-income people. They're spending it on food and rent. No, it's not new money, but it's new to the rent market in whatever city. Will that tend to drive rents up? I think so, yes.
gamesbrainiac 10y ago
One point made consistently in this article is that life is getting harder for a graduate of the liberal arts. There are a plethora of articles that espouse the notion that art doesn't pay. Yet, how is that surprising? You're taking four years to complete a degree program that provides you with no (measurable) practical skill.
- HeavenBanned 10y ago
  I vehemently disagree. Here's a tragic anecdote: I knew a retired Fireman in San Francisco who was in his late 70s, had his house paid off, with a full pension and health insurance. I asked him: "after WW2, what did people with liberal arts degrees do to find a job?" His response: "Oh, they'd just make a resume, walk into Clorox and get a job. Didn't you know?" No, I did not know. And I never will.
lacampbell 10y ago
I'm always a bit shocked at how many adults I've come across whose parents aid them financially - even when they're working. Aren't they ashamed? I'm late 20s, and don't have as many friends as I used to in my early 20s. But the ones I do pay their own way. I just can't relate to a grown adult living it up on their parents money. I do sometimes feel uncomfortable working in software though - I'm from a solidly lower class background, and the vast majority of the people I meet grew up middle/upper middle class. I'm on a middle class salary now, but I don't have the accumulated wealth of the previous generation behind me. My mindset is so different. I'm more ambitious, more protective of my free time, and much more frugal.
- mikeyouse 10y ago
  Why would they be ashamed? If you have a family with sufficient means and close enough ties that they're willing to help you and make your life a bit easier and less risky, why wouldn't you embrace that?
  - thatfunkymunki 10y ago
    I agree with you in theory but it's a point of pride to be financially independant for me and my wife. It's nice not to have ANY strings attached to any of the money we make beyond how we decide to allocate our money. That's not necessarily to say that all parents will have strings attached to their aid but maintaining financial independance is something that has substantial value to a lot of people.
  - lacampbell 10y ago
    Because I think it's shameful not to be financially self-sufficient. it's an important part of adulthood. To me regular financial help from your parents is something a child or teenager receives - it's an allowance. I'd like to think that if the generation before me had some money knocking about, that I'd have the same attitude. Let them spend their hard earned money on a cruise or a holiday, rather than supporting their grown children who are already well into adulthood themselves.
    - 10y ago
luvstarteps 10y ago
Literally 80% of my friends now live with their parents. It's not really down upon like it used to be. People enjoy living at home and actually brag about how nice (and cheap) it is.
WalterBright 10y ago
When I was young (1980s) it was normal for parents to provide the downpayment for the kids' first home. BTW, cars are an enormous cash sink. I saved a ton by buying beaters and doing most repairs myself. I still drive a beater :-) and fix it myself and it's amazing how little it costs. I've had my current beater for 25 years now, and it still starts as soon as I turn the key. It's a fairly simple car, and easy to fix. Being a beater also means I don't carry comprehensive insurance. Adding up those premiums saved over the years would probably buy a purty nice new car.
joshstrange 10y ago
It was my goal before I even finished college to be as independant from my parents as I could be. Most of that came from a need/desire to not give them anything they could hold over me (preemptively). The rest from hating the idea of living subsidised and being dependant and a drain on them. That said I know I am extremely fortunate to be able to lean on them if it came down to that and I hate that many people don't have that safety net there. I understand some may abuse it but I've not been great managing my money in the past and it's caused extreme stress for me but I can't imagine how much worse it would have been if I didn't have my parents to turn to if things got really bad (thankfully they didn't).
qstyk 10y ago
If you were taking a woman on a date to a place where women are objectified, I'd be open to the possibility that money isn't your only obstacle.
- ClassyJacket 10y ago
  I was not taking a woman on a date to a place where women are objectified, and I didn't say that I was. She and her friends (women) decided to go to a strip club, and invited me at the last second. How could you POSSIBLY have interpreted what I said as that it was my idea to go there, let alone that it was a date? You've also assumed it was a strip club of only females. Regardless, I'd be open to the possibility that you should mind your own damn business. Nobody involved cares for you to judge them for their job or the way they express their sexuality.
- lacampbell 10y ago
  Drop the puritanical attitude. Strippers are just regular people trying to make ends meet.
- akita-ken 10y ago
  Get off your moral high horse, you can't possibly know the full circumstances of the OP to make such assumptions. This SJW mentality has to stop.
  - ClassyJacket 10y ago
    It's funny because it was actually a group of girls that decided to go to the strip club and then just invited me at the last second because I was there. I didn't touch the stripper, but the girls did. I didn't pay to have her rub her boobs in my face, but the girls did. I'm not saying something can't be sexist if a girl does it, but I am pretty sure it blows that commenter's assumptions out of the water. I actually hadn't yet said that they were female strippers at that point either. Personally I don't like the idea of assuming a stripper doesn't like their job or is being taken advantage of or objectified. I don't see why it's any of our business to tell them how to feel about their job or make assumptions.
- 10y ago
nonsince 10y ago
It's disgusting that this is necessary. I'm outside the US and I've been financially independent since I was 20. My parents couldn't afford to pay for me much longer, and we're a not-bad-off white suburban family, about what americans would call "middle-class" I guess. I can't imagine how a poor family in the USA could hope to have social mobility with it being so necessary to have parents support you who might not even be able to support themselves.
nonSVmillennial 10y ago
I got my bachelors in CS at a state university on a full-ride scholarship I qualified for in high school, but was out of a job for a year, living on what I've saved up and loans from my parents. Eventually, I got a job as a developer in a mid-size city, making decent money relative to cost-of-living and not having to have roommates because I was spending only ~33% on rent. Though I'm not swimming in money, I have become financially independent as much as any wage or salaried worker is able. Though in my outlook I never really subscribed to the notion that all problems are fixable by pulling oneself up by their bootstraps, I'm realizing that this held true in my case. And as I get older I am finding it harder and harder to sympathize with my peers who've learned less marketable skills and are now living many three or four to an apartment in economic insecurity, or have moved to urban centers or boomtowns chasing their dream yet aren't much better off. Those who continuously receive assistance from their parents do not mirror my own experience, as any money my parents lent me was sorely missed and paid back at first opportunity, while those who are doing this on their own are making little measurable progress to attain a better quality of life, notwithstanding their best intentions. It's unfortunate that one's socioeconomic wealth still so strongly predicts their own wealth, It's unfortunate that certain systems perpetuate structural problems, and some people never get the chance to climb out of poverty, but some others are afforded a way up and choose not to pursue it.
RestlessMind 10y ago
A complaint against boomers is that they pulled up the ladder for upward mobility. That they benefited from cheap education, a booming economy, relatively cheap houses and stock market and fully funded social security and medicare. Whereas millennials have to face expensive education, stagnant economy and uncertain prospects for social security / medicare. If that's the case, we should welcome parent->children transfer of wealth to balance out the situation of two generations, no? Some people might prefer government to do this, but that is just a different mechanism (with lots of political opposition) to achieve the same end goal - wealth transfer from boomers to millennials.
- pm90 10y ago
  The problem with parental wealth transfer is when your parents may not be in the position to help you. Which is why this is most certainly not a good trend.
  - RestlessMind 10y ago
    Yes, and a lot of Government wealth transfer projects would also result in problems where they are unable to help a subset of people. Eg. Obamacare not helping a middle class family with income just above the threshold to receive subsidies but not enough to afford a high deductible or high premium insurance plan As I said, there can be different mechanisms for wealth transfer from boomers to millennials. Govt directed programs (means-tested or universal) might be preference of some and might even perform better, but they also tend to have a lot of political opposition. So while we are gridlocked on other fronts, its better to see some transfer happening between parents and children.

81 points by golfstrom 10y ago

Been there. As one of the 20-something whose parents didn't help with the rent. Two consequences: - really tough discussions with some friends and acquaintances once I realised their parents heavily subsidized their way of life while they were putting the social persona of young working adult being independent and nagging me about when I was going to buy my first car or why I was always the one who made it through the whole night with one glass of beer - really hard to move up in the adequate social circles and no care-free attitude which led to a much harder job hunt, grimmer prospects in relationships (partly cost me the love of my life) and way too much stress to be healthy I don't blame people for being helped though, that's not my point.

grx 10y ago
Why didn't they help?
- Godel_unicode 10y ago
  I'm not sure this is a polite question to ask; the odds of digging up pain seem pretty high.
  - thrwy000 10y ago
    Especially if they help your sibling and not you...
- dehugger 10y ago
  Many parents (mine included) say "if you aren't in school pay your own way". Once you are out of school, regardless if your wage is still barely above minimum, you are on your own.
  - myowncrapulence 10y ago
    Same. I come from middle class parents who could certainly afford to pay my way but chose to make me learn how to stand on my own feet. Certainly strips the world of its sheen when you see how people treat you if you are perceived as poor. Certainly makes you realize who your true friends are.
  - thatfunkymunki 10y ago
    I faced a similar fate- after I didn't finish college, I joined the Air Force and have been 100% financially independent since.
- johnchristopher 10y ago
  Well.. You edited the question before I could see it so now you got me curious :). Feel free to shoot, this is the internet and a semi-anonymous persona.
  - grx 10y ago
    Thanks for your reply, I re-edited it back. I'm just curious if it was a personal decision of your parents or if the circumstances were the reason, sorry if this is too personal!
- rjeli 10y ago
  not OP, but I dropped out of school to come work in the Bay and my parents did not support that
- khedoros1 10y ago
  Since around the time I was 15 or so, my parents told me that they'd pay for 4 years of college (no more than that) and that I'd be paying if I took longer than that to graduate. It was also clear that I'd be welcome to live at (their) home if I needed to, although I'd be expected to find some kind of job and pay rent. I took 2 quarters extra to finish, but also left school with a job lined up. My father especially has always been a "live within your means" guy, and his intention was always that I should choose somewhere to live and work that I could afford on my own.
- jlardinois 10y ago
  I'm surprised no one's yet answered the obvious and common "they can't afford to."
- cmdrfred 10y ago
  My dad is a meth addict who lives with his mother and my mother is an alcoholic who works at a grocery store. Not everyone has that opportunity.
- k-mcgrady 10y ago
  Not OP but same situation. Two reasons: 1. Parents can't afford to help (although that doesn't stop them offering). 2. I don't feel good about it. It's my choice to live in an expensive city - there is no reason at all I can't live somewhere less expensive - so I should be able to do it on my own. This is partly a pride thing but also I just wouldn't feel good taking money from family so that I have the budget to enjoy myself and socialise more. The people I know who have their parents help with rent either have decent paying jobs and want to have a really nice lifestyle (i.e. they really don't need that money) or are students who refuse to get a part time job (no excuse for that particularly when you're on your first or second masters).
- johnchristopher 10y ago
  tldr; Why didn't they help ? Because they didn't and couldn't know how. Well, to make it short (it would take a book to get into the details and the analysis) my parents had their first child for the wrong reasons. That backfired later on when the unresolved conflicts and the toxic relationship between all of us degraded the family's capacity to face challenges in an healthy way and I had to take/was given the black sheep role. A vicious circle of saviour/victim had been in place from an early age and I was too young as a child to escape it (even though they were adults they were too young as well to get around it without outside help which they didn't think they needed at that time). They were 36 when I was 18. Mother divorced biological father when I was 7 and he died some months later in an accident that was covered as a suicide (go figure). So, something was always fishy in how we interacted with each other. Mother remarried a man who was courting her in their high school years. Turns out he was an alcoholic like my father was. Not the stereotyped violent alcoholic. The sad kind, the one we ignore the changes in behaviour and the fact he is lying at 2 in the afternoon on the bathroom floor, haha let's laugh about it. Alcohol wasn't the problem, it's the facade and the make-believe game that everything is alright that is messing up the relationship. The man is okay but totally lacks the ability to express feelings (I won't go into his family situation but it explains some of his behaviour of course). So I was the silent kind about all of it but unexplained anxiety and inadequacy took its toll on the way we built the family (but I was too young to get that and thought I was the one who was malfunctioning) (which I was anyway but it was not completely my fault) and how we/I expressed our/my needs/wants/desires. Of course both me and my brother were told we were `mature for your age`. Which can have the same consequences as those children obliged to take on their parent's emotional responsibilities and play the parents. That's just a very rough picture of the whole thing. My brother suffered from it as well but in a different way (much more closer to them but he messed up his studies nevertheless) (I finished my BS anyway, yada me) (I was the one sent to shrinks of course) (I really dig the role theory in psychology). And then there's the whole taboo thing about money in society in general and in my family in particular. So why didn't they help ? Because they didn't and couldn't know how. And because I couldn't ask them and didn't dare ask them. For example I spent a year eating sugar on bread and ketchup on pasta. Lost a teeth in the process :D Don't do that :). Sorry, it must be even more teasing now than before. That's because these kind of stories takes time to write down in a way that makes sense and english isn't my first language so I can't fiddle too much with nuances. edit: to clarify things: yes they could afford to help. I don't think that once I had my first job they would have helped me money wise on a regular basis but when I was in HS and uni they definitely had the resources to do so.
sverige 10y ago
The people you think you want to hang around with in your 20s can seem really ridiculous when you're in your 40s and 50s, and I say that as someone who ran with some people in my 20s who most here would recognize immediately. Those who achieved these things received almost no parental assistance when we were in our 20s. Many of those who were subsidized have gone on to spectacularly mediocre careers. With regard to the job search, work on reducing stress. That carefree attitude that helps in getting job offers is directly (and sometimes geometrically) proportional to your ability to recognize all of the good things you have at any given moment. Sometimes that includes changing (not lowering) expectations. I say all of this with the caveat that 1) fame and fortune are overrated as human goods, especially by young people; and 2) I am neither famous nor wealthy, but I am exceedingly happy with my life compared to my 20s. I'm now in my 50s and generally successful in curbing my urge to bail out my 28-year-old daughter out of the messes she sometimes makes. Edit: But I have been there a couple of times where it was help her or she ends up on the streets.
- reloop 10y ago
  To keep it polite and short, that's really not how the world works anymore. These days your (at least financial) success in life is very much correlated with the wealth of your parents. If you're from Sweden (as your username would indicate) you can take Stockholm as an example. My non-independent friend (and their parents) there are millionaires from housing appreciation and savings, while my independent friends are are spending all their salaries on renting short lease 3x normal rent sublets.
  - charlesdm 10y ago
    Just because you inherit some capital doesn't mean you are actually able to use it to make more. Actually, most people can't, meaning the only thing they can do is spend it. How pathetic is that? If you count success in life as buying a house with money you were given, great. But that isn't success. I don't even know what that is honestly. The middle class is disappearing. Either you know how to make money (and that's not by working a job) or you don't. If you don't, you'll eventually be replaced by software, or a robot, or your job will be optimised away, or you will have to compete with 50 other people who want the same job because less jobs will be available in the future. The only thing that isn't disappearing is having great ideas. Great ideas, combined with an interest in executing, generally lead to freedom in life and (some) wealth.
ClassyJacket 10y ago
"grimmer prospects in relationships (partly cost me the love of my life) " I'm sorry for that. I can sympathize slightly. Rich people really don't get it. Yeah. Me last week on the way to a strip club: 'Who's paying for this taxi? Are we going far? Do we have to pay to get in?' Fried (girl I ALMOST dated): 'Oh my god you're SO cheap, you're such a killjoy, just stop worrying about the money blah blah blah.' Yeah, I probably should've relaxed and been more sociable. But it's easy for them to say that stuff, when their parents pay for their 400$ a week apartment in the city. Meanwhile my parents in their 60s struggle to figure out how they can ever retire without starving. Plus there's the 3+ hours a day lost to travel and the inconvenience of sharing a house with someone else. I'm not poor, I was born in a first world country and am very lucky. But people whose parents pay for their housing don't get how easy they have it even above people like me. I could start working full time and get a nice apartment close to the city no problem. But then I won't be saving any money, won't be going back to university and doing a PhD, won't be starting my own business, and won't be helping my parents retire. I could continue to work less and try to start my own business, which is what I've chosen. But this way I don't get my apartment in the city and can't blow money on taxis and strip clubs and cocktails all the time. I can't even get my car fixed right now. My housemate is a smart and capable person with a pilot's licence, but after trying to get into a pathway to a good job for years (you need more than just the licence), started working full time in a warehouse to make ends meet. I've seen how he feels after work every day, he's not happy. I don't want to stall my life any longer. I try to remember that at least I'm not starving in Africa, and I don't blame my lack of a girlfriend or better friendships on money. But you can be socially impaired by having to pay rent, and it does suck when those little things happen. Seriously, screw Melbourne house prices and screw the politicians and lazy rich leeches that made it this way.
- charlesdm 10y ago
  Screw working for someone? This personally took me a while realise: the world does not owe you anything. Start making your own way.
  - ClassyJacket 10y ago
    Can you quote the part where I said that? What I said was: "Seriously, screw Melbourne house prices and screw the politicians and lazy rich leeches that made it this way". I think it's pretty clear I'm talking about housing prices being driven up by laws that favour the rich, and landlords who buy up houses, contributing nothing to society.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
KurtMueller 10y ago
> really hard to move up in the adequate social circles and no care-free attitude which led to a much harder job hunt, grimmer prospects in relationships (partly cost me the love of my life) and way too much stress to be healthy Seems like s/he's not actually the love of your life if s/he's willing to ditch you because of lack of money.
- johnchristopher 10y ago
  More complicated than that. I held out on some common projects because money was a concern for me. At some point it's straining the relationship and the capacity to project ourselves in the future. Which sucks the life out of the party after some time.
colanderman 10y ago
> I don't blame people for being helped though, that's not my point. One can always refuse help.

grx 10y ago

Is this an American thing? It's pretty common in Germany, but I remember that foreigners often see us as the 'renters'-country (meaning the majority rents instead of owning a property), so there might be a difference. Just wondering why this seems an increasing thing in your cities. It's also no big secret that parents often support their children far beyond the school time if they are not able to apply for student loans (Bafög).

clamprecht 10y ago
I think owning your own home is (or was?) part of the "American Dream." See e.g. http://www.nytimes.com/1988/09/11/realestate/in-the-nation-why-owning-a-home-is-the-american-dream.html?pagewanted=all http://www.nytimes.com/1988/09/11/realestate/in-the-nation-w...
manarth 10y ago
The renting is a bit of a red herring; the headline could easily read "Their parents help with the bills" (and in the article, it actually says "receive some financial assistance from their parents for living expenses", rather than rent specifically). It is a surprise to me that it's also common in Germany though: the perception that it is a 'renters'-country led me to believe that the rents were relatively affordable (as a result of protections like rent control). But I guess even "relatively affordable" can be challenging for an under-25 in today's economy.
DanielleMolloy 10y ago
One significant difference is of course that in Germany universities are free, so the overall financial burden of education is not nearly as high as in the U.S. If you stay away from the expensive cities (Munich, Hamburg) or their centers and live in outskirts or other cities with good universities like Berlin or Leipzig, rents are not really that expensive. I paid 150€ / month for a small central room in a shared apartment in a German university town, which I could pay for completely with a student assistantship. Most rents for rooms in shared flats are in the range 200€ - 450€ (depending on the area). Btw, BAFöG has been such a successful model for Germany that one wishes every country would introduce such a system.
10y ago

figers 10y ago

As a landlord of multiple properties in Boston I can confirm the parents pay the rent.

jff 10y ago
One of my college roommates would get a small stack of signed blank checks from his mother every time he went home, in order to pay the rent and whatever else came up. He kept them underneath his mattress, which we discovered when we had to move from one apartment to another and his ass never showed up to help.
- Godel_unicode 10y ago
  And here I am, paranoid about having unsigned checks laying around because they have my account and ACH # on them. Other people's tolerance for risk always amazes me!
  - johnchristopher 10y ago
    Eh. Usage of checks in the US always puzzled me but now that we have smartphones with direct access to our bank and it seems even weirder to still do things with checks (vs cash).
    - khedoros1 10y ago
      When I've used checks, it's been almost exclusively to pay bills for things that don't have an electronic payment system set up, and where I also don't want to drop $1500 cash into the landlord's mail slot for rent. I know that we're missing easy money transfer options that other countries have had for decades, though.
  - mahyarm 10y ago
    More like unawareness of risk.
  - beachstartup 10y ago
    if you have enough money, there is no risk. you simply call the bank, and tell them to credit you the money back, which they do immediately, and then they launch an investigation into the felony crime which occurred. they'll send you a couple of affidavits to sign in the mail later. it's even easier with a credit card because the money was never taken to begin with. and get this, with amex you don't even have to call, because they call you, and you tell them which charges you want deleted, while they send you a new card. not having money totally sucks in comparison.

lordCarbonFiber 10y ago

Subject to change while I parse the source data set, but I'm not sure their conclusions are sound. Specifically the reliance on averages and amortizing the existence of yearly lump sums to monthly assistance. And the wording of "has ever" so a single gift/loan now gets extended to reported as years of monthly assistance. For example, parents providing their child with first month's rent/security deposit for the first place after college I wouldn't say is indicative of "financial dependence". Especially considering the data was for 2013 when getting credit for short term loans as a young person was even harder than it is today. Feels more like another dressed up "entitled millennials living off those hard working boomers again".

thatfunkymunki 10y ago
Or worse- yet another article that attempts to make people feel bad for using the wealth they've obtained over the course of their life for making their children "privileged"

awinter-py 10y ago

Not sure how the article concludes that young adults don't tell their friends about family financial help. It's not a question on the PSID survey and it doesn't seem to be in the michigan PSC report. The secrecy of financial help is a really important claim because it affects how under-resourced college grads plan their 20s; irresponsible of the authors not to footnote this.

eli_gottlieb 10y ago

As a tenant in one property in Boston who receives no help from his parents, I deeply resent the ease with which you attained wealth by just renting out ever-rising Bostonian housing.

Godel_unicode 10y ago
Curious how you know it was easy? A colleague of mine is a landlord and it seems externally to be a huge pain. Definitely put me off of trying to do the same.
- flubert 10y ago
  I'm sure it is just an oversight that the OP forgot to mention that he is currently heavily invested in the Boston rental market as a landlord.
- acomjean 10y ago
  In my condo building a lot of people who have moved out (out of town, out of state) they keep renting their places out with the help of a local realtor/manager that takes a cut and is supposed to deal with stuff. They don't really, and the volunteer condo board ends up dealing with a lot of the loose ends. Based on the how much rent is in Boston are, there is a strong , strong, strong incentive to rent out. I could make about 3x my mortgage/fees by renting my place in cambridge which I bought early part of this century (of course where would I live...). Since we have about 50% owner occupied, and the tenants are paying a lot, so they expect a lot. Its becoming a city for rich people and students. I can understand the resentment. I think it hurts the region.
- eli_gottlieb 10y ago
  As acomjean noted, if you can make 3x your mortgage/fees as a rentier, and the rents rise every single year, you're being easily buoyed upward by the market.
cblock811 10y ago
Renting out properties is a huge hassle. My family spent a lot of time in real estate and I got to hear the headaches (which is why I didn't follow in their footsteps). Frankly, I'm pretty sure you're just being bitter and aren't helping the conversation.

Godel_unicode 10y ago

This is an interesting counterpoint to all of the "government subsidies distort housing prices" arguments. Obviously family subsidies are very different than government subsidies, but I think they might have a similar effect on pricing. Especially for economicallt disadvantaged people trying to go it alone; you're now in a market (similar to college tuition or healthcare) where nobody pays full price except for you* *For large values of "nobody" and "you"

trjordan 10y ago

$3,000 a year is a weird number. Of course anything helps, but when rent is $1,000, $2,000, or even $3,000 / month, is that really make or break? I wonder if it's paying security deposits or first / last deposits. When I was 23, paying rent seemed doable, but digging up 3 months of rent all at one go was terrifying.

macawfish 10y ago
In many urban areas, rent is not $1000 a month, let alone $2000 or $3000. In smaller cities you can often find rooms for $250-$500, although that seems to be changing very quickly in my area. Jobs often pay less too.
ars 10y ago
> rent is $1,000, $2,000, or even $3,000 / month That's rent without roommates. I suspect people are sharing the rent with 3 other people, so $3,000 a month is about 1/3 of their rent.
- trjordan 10y ago
  Ahhhh that's probably it. $300 / month is easily half the rent if you have a couple of roommates. ... which is exactly how I did it from 22-24, not sure how I forgot that.

pboutros 10y ago

>The choice of career path matters. Those in the art and design fields get the most help, an average of $3,600 a year. People who work in farming, construction, retail and personal services get the least. Am I wrong to assume that it isn't the career choice so much as how wealthy the parents are?

twinkletwinkle 10y ago
It probably correlates. People with wealthy supportive parents are more able to take a "less valuable" degree. Where value = market rate for your skills.

manacit 10y ago

This is interesting, but not altogether surprising. As an urban 20-something, my parents helped me my covering the lion's share of my college costs. Once that was over, it was an unspoken agreement that I was completely on my own. Fortunately, I graduated with a job offer in hand as a SWE in the city of my choice, but that is far from the norm for the graduating classes in many majors. If anything, I find the provided numbers feel too low - $250 a month in many metro areas is unlikely to be 'make it or break it' numbers (by my estimation). It's more that their parents are subsidizing a lifestyle in those urban areas. At any rate, it's hard to blame people for getting help from their parents, though I can't say I would be excited to do so for my kids after a certain age (though, of course, I don't have any).

twinkletwinkle 10y ago
It's an interesting balance. I'm the same as you, I received an incredible amount of help to pay for private college. I paid my way through grad school and now make a professional salary in an expensive city, entirely self supporting. I'm moderately proud of living below my means and also living "well". I'd also be proud to be able to help my theoretical children, so it's easy to see the "other side" of the argument as such.

macawfish 10y ago

This makes me think hard about universal basic income. If average incomes went up, how long would it take for those with monopolies on basic needs to raise the prices? Not long, I'm sure. Unless rentier capitalism is somehow cut out of the picture, if the government provided $10,000/yr, then $10,000/yr could very quickly become the new "poverty". If banks (via landlords' debts) are squeezing people now, whats stopping them from taking peoples' basic income too? Don't get me wrong, I recognize the need for something like basic income, but rentier capitalism is suffocating peoples lives right now, and I have a hard time seeing how universal basic income is going to stop that.

mindslight 10y ago
In fact, basic income is actually just a continuation of the same inflationary alchemy that's been eroding the middle class for decades. This is why a seemingly revolutionary idea is getting so much press - because it actually isn't revolutionary at all, but a doubling down on the status quo!
- gnaritas 10y ago
  > basic income is actually just a continuation of the same inflationary alchemy It's no such thing; not remotely. BI isn't new money, it's simply a redistribution of money from those with more to those with less. It won't increase the money supply and thus doesn't cause inflation.
  - AnimalMuppet 10y ago
    Yes and no. Say I'm a billionaire (I wish). I've got all this money. It's not going into food and rent. (OK, a tiny amount is going into food, but I can only eat three meals a day. And "rent" is more likely buying multi-million-dollar homes.) My money's in investments, maybe some luxuries. Now we go to BI. Now millions of what used to be my money are going to low-income people. They're spending it on food and rent. No, it's not new money, but it's new to the rent market in whatever city. Will that tend to drive rents up? I think so, yes.

gamesbrainiac 10y ago

One point made consistently in this article is that life is getting harder for a graduate of the liberal arts. There are a plethora of articles that espouse the notion that art doesn't pay. Yet, how is that surprising? You're taking four years to complete a degree program that provides you with no (measurable) practical skill.

HeavenBanned 10y ago
I vehemently disagree. Here's a tragic anecdote: I knew a retired Fireman in San Francisco who was in his late 70s, had his house paid off, with a full pension and health insurance. I asked him: "after WW2, what did people with liberal arts degrees do to find a job?" His response: "Oh, they'd just make a resume, walk into Clorox and get a job. Didn't you know?" No, I did not know. And I never will.

lacampbell 10y ago

I'm always a bit shocked at how many adults I've come across whose parents aid them financially - even when they're working. Aren't they ashamed? I'm late 20s, and don't have as many friends as I used to in my early 20s. But the ones I do pay their own way. I just can't relate to a grown adult living it up on their parents money. I do sometimes feel uncomfortable working in software though - I'm from a solidly lower class background, and the vast majority of the people I meet grew up middle/upper middle class. I'm on a middle class salary now, but I don't have the accumulated wealth of the previous generation behind me. My mindset is so different. I'm more ambitious, more protective of my free time, and much more frugal.

mikeyouse 10y ago
Why would they be ashamed? If you have a family with sufficient means and close enough ties that they're willing to help you and make your life a bit easier and less risky, why wouldn't you embrace that?
- thatfunkymunki 10y ago
  I agree with you in theory but it's a point of pride to be financially independant for me and my wife. It's nice not to have ANY strings attached to any of the money we make beyond how we decide to allocate our money. That's not necessarily to say that all parents will have strings attached to their aid but maintaining financial independance is something that has substantial value to a lot of people.
- lacampbell 10y ago
  Because I think it's shameful not to be financially self-sufficient. it's an important part of adulthood. To me regular financial help from your parents is something a child or teenager receives - it's an allowance. I'd like to think that if the generation before me had some money knocking about, that I'd have the same attitude. Let them spend their hard earned money on a cruise or a holiday, rather than supporting their grown children who are already well into adulthood themselves.
  - 10y ago

luvstarteps 10y ago

Literally 80% of my friends now live with their parents. It's not really down upon like it used to be. People enjoy living at home and actually brag about how nice (and cheap) it is.

WalterBright 10y ago

When I was young (1980s) it was normal for parents to provide the downpayment for the kids' first home. BTW, cars are an enormous cash sink. I saved a ton by buying beaters and doing most repairs myself. I still drive a beater :-) and fix it myself and it's amazing how little it costs. I've had my current beater for 25 years now, and it still starts as soon as I turn the key. It's a fairly simple car, and easy to fix. Being a beater also means I don't carry comprehensive insurance. Adding up those premiums saved over the years would probably buy a purty nice new car.

joshstrange 10y ago

It was my goal before I even finished college to be as independant from my parents as I could be. Most of that came from a need/desire to not give them anything they could hold over me (preemptively). The rest from hating the idea of living subsidised and being dependant and a drain on them. That said I know I am extremely fortunate to be able to lean on them if it came down to that and I hate that many people don't have that safety net there. I understand some may abuse it but I've not been great managing my money in the past and it's caused extreme stress for me but I can't imagine how much worse it would have been if I didn't have my parents to turn to if things got really bad (thankfully they didn't).

qstyk 10y ago

If you were taking a woman on a date to a place where women are objectified, I'd be open to the possibility that money isn't your only obstacle.

ClassyJacket 10y ago
I was not taking a woman on a date to a place where women are objectified, and I didn't say that I was. She and her friends (women) decided to go to a strip club, and invited me at the last second. How could you POSSIBLY have interpreted what I said as that it was my idea to go there, let alone that it was a date? You've also assumed it was a strip club of only females. Regardless, I'd be open to the possibility that you should mind your own damn business. Nobody involved cares for you to judge them for their job or the way they express their sexuality.
lacampbell 10y ago
Drop the puritanical attitude. Strippers are just regular people trying to make ends meet.
akita-ken 10y ago
Get off your moral high horse, you can't possibly know the full circumstances of the OP to make such assumptions. This SJW mentality has to stop.
- ClassyJacket 10y ago
  It's funny because it was actually a group of girls that decided to go to the strip club and then just invited me at the last second because I was there. I didn't touch the stripper, but the girls did. I didn't pay to have her rub her boobs in my face, but the girls did. I'm not saying something can't be sexist if a girl does it, but I am pretty sure it blows that commenter's assumptions out of the water. I actually hadn't yet said that they were female strippers at that point either. Personally I don't like the idea of assuming a stripper doesn't like their job or is being taken advantage of or objectified. I don't see why it's any of our business to tell them how to feel about their job or make assumptions.
10y ago

nonsince 10y ago

It's disgusting that this is necessary. I'm outside the US and I've been financially independent since I was 20. My parents couldn't afford to pay for me much longer, and we're a not-bad-off white suburban family, about what americans would call "middle-class" I guess. I can't imagine how a poor family in the USA could hope to have social mobility with it being so necessary to have parents support you who might not even be able to support themselves.

nonSVmillennial 10y ago

I got my bachelors in CS at a state university on a full-ride scholarship I qualified for in high school, but was out of a job for a year, living on what I've saved up and loans from my parents. Eventually, I got a job as a developer in a mid-size city, making decent money relative to cost-of-living and not having to have roommates because I was spending only ~33% on rent. Though I'm not swimming in money, I have become financially independent as much as any wage or salaried worker is able. Though in my outlook I never really subscribed to the notion that all problems are fixable by pulling oneself up by their bootstraps, I'm realizing that this held true in my case. And as I get older I am finding it harder and harder to sympathize with my peers who've learned less marketable skills and are now living many three or four to an apartment in economic insecurity, or have moved to urban centers or boomtowns chasing their dream yet aren't much better off. Those who continuously receive assistance from their parents do not mirror my own experience, as any money my parents lent me was sorely missed and paid back at first opportunity, while those who are doing this on their own are making little measurable progress to attain a better quality of life, notwithstanding their best intentions. It's unfortunate that one's socioeconomic wealth still so strongly predicts their own wealth, It's unfortunate that certain systems perpetuate structural problems, and some people never get the chance to climb out of poverty, but some others are afforded a way up and choose not to pursue it.

RestlessMind 10y ago

A complaint against boomers is that they pulled up the ladder for upward mobility. That they benefited from cheap education, a booming economy, relatively cheap houses and stock market and fully funded social security and medicare. Whereas millennials have to face expensive education, stagnant economy and uncertain prospects for social security / medicare. If that's the case, we should welcome parent->children transfer of wealth to balance out the situation of two generations, no? Some people might prefer government to do this, but that is just a different mechanism (with lots of political opposition) to achieve the same end goal - wealth transfer from boomers to millennials.

pm90 10y ago
The problem with parental wealth transfer is when your parents may not be in the position to help you. Which is why this is most certainly not a good trend.
- RestlessMind 10y ago
  Yes, and a lot of Government wealth transfer projects would also result in problems where they are unable to help a subset of people. Eg. Obamacare not helping a middle class family with income just above the threshold to receive subsidies but not enough to afford a high deductible or high premium insurance plan As I said, there can be different mechanisms for wealth transfer from boomers to millennials. Govt directed programs (means-tested or universal) might be preference of some and might even perform better, but they also tend to have a lot of political opposition. So while we are gridlocked on other fronts, its better to see some transfer happening between parents and children.