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If you're interested in this, watch the Netflix documentary "Sour Grapes" about wine counterfeiting - millions and millions of dollars per year and most victims

If you're interested in this, watch the Netflix documentary "Sour Grapes" about wine counterfeiting - millions and millions of dollars per year and most victims just "don't want to know". Sometimes the counterfeiters produce and sell wines for 10s of thousands of dollars - and the buyey later finds the vineyard never even made that kind of wine. William Koch is profiled in the film, he alone spent millions on counterfeit wine and hired a team of former CIA operatives to try and track some of it down. Fascinating stuff.

icantdrive55 10y ago
The book Billionaire's Vinegar is a eye opener too. What I found funny is William Koch spent millions because he got his ego bruised. The book also describes what might happen to some if you become a wine snob, and worse; what you might evolve into if you make a lot of money in life. The book is very well written. I'm not a big reader, and I finished it in a few hours. In college, I worked in a big wine store. The owner really didn't care about the business. He would come in sometimes under a bottle, or two, and after witnessing our horrid sales skills technique, should tell at us, "Open a bottle, and taste it. Then sell the crap!". I still remember that Shark's tooth, framed in gold, that would bounce off his chest while he was yelling. The sliding door would close, I would watch him leave, and I could go back to my minimum wage clerk mentality. Meaning I would try to get my studies done. Besides dusting, there wasen't much work to do. This was in the ninties, and grocery stores, drug stores, etc. were taking away his business. He really didn't care, he owned a few apartment complexes that he made a fortune off of. He just wanted to ride out the lease. One night, after the Manager, gave us the same speech about getting to know the wine, and sell it--a meek accountant from the back walked out and told us, "Boys--get ready!" He then walked around the store picking bottles off the shelf, even the wine in the glass cases. He picked at least 50 bottles--all over $30. He was really miffed about someting. We had a taste test that night. I couldn't tell the difference between the $70 bottles, and the $30 bottles. I was not a wine drinker though. The Accountant called us Beer Boys. He was right. I then asked him to do a blind taste test. He said, Go ahead--try to stump me!" I set up twenty red cups with the price written on the bottom of the cup. He ended up liking the less expensive wines. When I told him, he said, 'I've had a bad day---I can usually tell the difference', or something like that. He then realized he just opened at least 2 grand worth of wine. He had a look of constipation on his face. He then asked us to pour all the wine down the drain in the bathroom. He said, "Quick--the Security guys might pop in?" We poured all that expensive wine down the drain. To this day; I feel weird about the waste.
terminado 10y ago
From end-to-end, I think the whole pipeline is a waste of human talent. I'm not ashamed to say, I'd be happy to hear about more people getting fleeced over bullshit like this. Of all the things they expend time and effort worrying about: nuanced preferences for getting drunk. Let it all burn, I say.
- dredmorbius 10y ago
  Moreso than adtech?
  - tlow 10y ago
    More so than anti-virus?
    - dredmorbius 10y ago
      Why answer a question with a question?
- hug 10y ago
  If you're drinking expensive alcohol just to get drunk, you're drinking wrong. Hell, if you're drinking alcohol just to get drunk, you have a problem. (And that problem is called alcoholism.) I spend hundreds of dollars a month on bottles of spirits and liqueurs to make cocktails at home, not because I'm trying to get drunk but because a good cocktail is like a good meal: It contains flavours and textures which are interesting and exciting, that I can share with the people around me. Wine and beer are similar, in that a good wine or beer paired with a good meal can make both taste better, and be another element in the experience I'm sharing with the people I'm with. I think that very quickly there's an upper limit to the price-to-palate ratio on a bottle of wine, but there's also studies done that show that people straight up enjoy drinking wine that they've spent more money on. If that's how you enjoy yourself, and that's how you want to spend your money, more power to you. If you don't enjoy the experience of drinking, or you don't enjoy the taste, or you have any other objection to it, that's fine, but you should recognise that responsible drinking (expensive taste or not) is not a moral failure.

icantdrive55 10y ago

The book Billionaire's Vinegar is a eye opener too. What I found funny is William Koch spent millions because he got his ego bruised. The book also describes what might happen to some if you become a wine snob, and worse; what you might evolve into if you make a lot of money in life. The book is very well written. I'm not a big reader, and I finished it in a few hours. In college, I worked in a big wine store. The owner really didn't care about the business. He would come in sometimes under a bottle, or two, and after witnessing our horrid sales skills technique, should tell at us, "Open a bottle, and taste it. Then sell the crap!". I still remember that Shark's tooth, framed in gold, that would bounce off his chest while he was yelling. The sliding door would close, I would watch him leave, and I could go back to my minimum wage clerk mentality. Meaning I would try to get my studies done. Besides dusting, there wasen't much work to do. This was in the ninties, and grocery stores, drug stores, etc. were taking away his business. He really didn't care, he owned a few apartment complexes that he made a fortune off of. He just wanted to ride out the lease. One night, after the Manager, gave us the same speech about getting to know the wine, and sell it--a meek accountant from the back walked out and told us, "Boys--get ready!" He then walked around the store picking bottles off the shelf, even the wine in the glass cases. He picked at least 50 bottles--all over $30. He was really miffed about someting. We had a taste test that night. I couldn't tell the difference between the $70 bottles, and the $30 bottles. I was not a wine drinker though. The Accountant called us Beer Boys. He was right. I then asked him to do a blind taste test. He said, Go ahead--try to stump me!" I set up twenty red cups with the price written on the bottom of the cup. He ended up liking the less expensive wines. When I told him, he said, 'I've had a bad day---I can usually tell the difference', or something like that. He then realized he just opened at least 2 grand worth of wine. He had a look of constipation on his face. He then asked us to pour all the wine down the drain in the bathroom. He said, "Quick--the Security guys might pop in?" We poured all that expensive wine down the drain. To this day; I feel weird about the waste.

terminado 10y ago

From end-to-end, I think the whole pipeline is a waste of human talent. I'm not ashamed to say, I'd be happy to hear about more people getting fleeced over bullshit like this. Of all the things they expend time and effort worrying about: nuanced preferences for getting drunk. Let it all burn, I say.

dredmorbius 10y ago
Moreso than adtech?
- tlow 10y ago
  More so than anti-virus?
  - dredmorbius 10y ago
    Why answer a question with a question?
hug 10y ago
If you're drinking expensive alcohol just to get drunk, you're drinking wrong. Hell, if you're drinking alcohol just to get drunk, you have a problem. (And that problem is called alcoholism.) I spend hundreds of dollars a month on bottles of spirits and liqueurs to make cocktails at home, not because I'm trying to get drunk but because a good cocktail is like a good meal: It contains flavours and textures which are interesting and exciting, that I can share with the people around me. Wine and beer are similar, in that a good wine or beer paired with a good meal can make both taste better, and be another element in the experience I'm sharing with the people I'm with. I think that very quickly there's an upper limit to the price-to-palate ratio on a bottle of wine, but there's also studies done that show that people straight up enjoy drinking wine that they've spent more money on. If that's how you enjoy yourself, and that's how you want to spend your money, more power to you. If you don't enjoy the experience of drinking, or you don't enjoy the taste, or you have any other objection to it, that's fine, but you should recognise that responsible drinking (expensive taste or not) is not a moral failure.