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Are there any good, cheap laboratory wines that can pass blind taste tests?

by smhost 10y ago

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
closed 10y ago
Judging from the Wikipedia article on blind wine taste tests [1], I'm not sure they're all that reliable. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_wine_tasting https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_wine_tasting
seibelj 10y ago
Numerous double-blind studied have shown experts can't tell the difference between common table wine and expensive bottles.[0][1] The whole thing is absurd. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judgment_of_Paris_(wine) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judgment_of_Paris_(wine) [1] https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/journal-of-wine-economics/article/div-classtitlean-examination-of-judge-reliability-at-a-major-us-wine-competitiona-hreffn01-ref-typefnspan-classsupspanadiv/15EF999FBAC63C5FB6DCF1C2F4BB6655 https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/journal-of-wine-econ...
- antognini 10y ago
  I don't think those links support your claim. The Judgment of Paris was between high-end California and Bordeaux wines. The received wisdom of the time was that California Bordeaux-style wines (or, more generally, anything from the New World) were inferior to true Bordeaux wines. The Judgment of Paris showed that wasn't true. But they certainly didn't use California table wine. And the study you link to just seems to show that judges don't rank wines in competition very consistently. I don't think that table wines are often entered into these sorts of competitions. I'm fairly confident that someone with a good palette could distinguish between a high-end Bordeaux and Two-Buck Chuck.
  - seibelj 10y ago
    Do you have any science to prove your hunch? I've been following this for a while and nothing I've ever read showed that judges can distinguish two buck chuck from high end wine.
    - 09bjb 10y ago
      Uneducated drinkers wouldn't be able to tell the difference. Once you've tried enough wines, the difference is obvious and nobody debates it anymore. If you drink beer, it's not much different than mistaking Coors Light for your favorite microbrewed Stout.
      - fenwick67 10y ago
        I'm neither a big wine or beer drinker, but I must say it's way easier to tell a microbrew from a coors light than it is to discern a $10 cabernet from a $1000 cabernet.
        antognini 10y ago
        That is certainly true. One of my professors in grad school was really into wine and would periodically host a wine class for the grad students. According to him there is not much difference between a $1000 bottle of wine and a good bottle of ~$30 wine. The main difference is in consistency. A $30 wine could be okay, excellent, or bad. But if you buy a $1000 bottle of wine, you know that it will be excellent.
        jpatokal 10y ago
        ...unless it's been kept poorly, in which case it will be vinegar. I used to live in Singapore, which is full of rich people who collect wine and wine shops that cater to them, completely with regulated-humidity cellars etc. Problem is, Singapore is in the tropics, meaning wine often sits around baking in containers for weeks or months on its way to the shop...
        10y ago
blacksmith_tb 10y ago
You can even dye white wine red and even professional tasters will be fooled[1]. 1: https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/jun/23/wine-tasting-junk-science-analysis https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/jun/23/wine-ta...
- geofft 10y ago
  Yes, but that's a statement on the distinction between (certain types of) red and white wines, not on the distinction between cheap and (worthwhile) expensive wines. It's sort of like saying that because you can install Windows on a Mac, there's no difference between an Inspiron and a MacBook Pro.
- mrob 10y ago
  Students, not professional tasters. "The wine comparison test was carried out by 54 undergraduates from the Faculty of Oenology of the University of Bordeaux." http://www.daysyn.com/Morrot.pdf http://www.daysyn.com/Morrot.pdf
  - DonaldFisk 10y ago
    Wine students. I'd expect them to know a lot more about wine than most people. The wine's colour is part of the experience of drinking wine and affects the perceived flavour. They probably wouldn't have been fooled so easily if they were blindfolded. Knowing a wine's price also affect its perceived flavour: https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/insights/baba-shiv-how-wines-price-tag-affect-its-taste https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/insights/baba-shiv-how-wines-pr...

Are there any good, cheap laboratory wines that can pass blind taste tests?

by smhost 10y ago

Are there any good, cheap laboratory wines that can pass blind taste tests?

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

closed 10y ago

Judging from the Wikipedia article on blind wine taste tests [1], I'm not sure they're all that reliable. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_wine_tasting https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_wine_tasting

seibelj 10y ago

Numerous double-blind studied have shown experts can't tell the difference between common table wine and expensive bottles.[0][1] The whole thing is absurd. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judgment_of_Paris_(wine) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judgment_of_Paris_(wine) [1] https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/journal-of-wine-economics/article/div-classtitlean-examination-of-judge-reliability-at-a-major-us-wine-competitiona-hreffn01-ref-typefnspan-classsupspanadiv/15EF999FBAC63C5FB6DCF1C2F4BB6655 https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/journal-of-wine-econ...

antognini 10y ago
I don't think those links support your claim. The Judgment of Paris was between high-end California and Bordeaux wines. The received wisdom of the time was that California Bordeaux-style wines (or, more generally, anything from the New World) were inferior to true Bordeaux wines. The Judgment of Paris showed that wasn't true. But they certainly didn't use California table wine. And the study you link to just seems to show that judges don't rank wines in competition very consistently. I don't think that table wines are often entered into these sorts of competitions. I'm fairly confident that someone with a good palette could distinguish between a high-end Bordeaux and Two-Buck Chuck.
- seibelj 10y ago
  Do you have any science to prove your hunch? I've been following this for a while and nothing I've ever read showed that judges can distinguish two buck chuck from high end wine.
  - 09bjb 10y ago
    Uneducated drinkers wouldn't be able to tell the difference. Once you've tried enough wines, the difference is obvious and nobody debates it anymore. If you drink beer, it's not much different than mistaking Coors Light for your favorite microbrewed Stout.
    - fenwick67 10y ago
      I'm neither a big wine or beer drinker, but I must say it's way easier to tell a microbrew from a coors light than it is to discern a $10 cabernet from a $1000 cabernet.
      - antognini 10y ago
        That is certainly true. One of my professors in grad school was really into wine and would periodically host a wine class for the grad students. According to him there is not much difference between a $1000 bottle of wine and a good bottle of ~$30 wine. The main difference is in consistency. A $30 wine could be okay, excellent, or bad. But if you buy a $1000 bottle of wine, you know that it will be excellent.
        jpatokal 10y ago
        ...unless it's been kept poorly, in which case it will be vinegar. I used to live in Singapore, which is full of rich people who collect wine and wine shops that cater to them, completely with regulated-humidity cellars etc. Problem is, Singapore is in the tropics, meaning wine often sits around baking in containers for weeks or months on its way to the shop...
      - 10y ago

blacksmith_tb 10y ago

You can even dye white wine red and even professional tasters will be fooled[1]. 1: https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/jun/23/wine-tasting-junk-science-analysis https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/jun/23/wine-ta...

geofft 10y ago
Yes, but that's a statement on the distinction between (certain types of) red and white wines, not on the distinction between cheap and (worthwhile) expensive wines. It's sort of like saying that because you can install Windows on a Mac, there's no difference between an Inspiron and a MacBook Pro.
mrob 10y ago
Students, not professional tasters. "The wine comparison test was carried out by 54 undergraduates from the Faculty of Oenology of the University of Bordeaux." http://www.daysyn.com/Morrot.pdf http://www.daysyn.com/Morrot.pdf
- DonaldFisk 10y ago
  Wine students. I'd expect them to know a lot more about wine than most people. The wine's colour is part of the experience of drinking wine and affects the perceived flavour. They probably wouldn't have been fooled so easily if they were blindfolded. Knowing a wine's price also affect its perceived flavour: https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/insights/baba-shiv-how-wines-price-tag-affect-its-taste https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/insights/baba-shiv-how-wines-pr...