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Why cant the workers create a forum and a bug tracking system and write their concerns and let everyone up-vote it and get the management to address them. Orga

by yanilkr 10y ago

Why cant the workers create a forum and a bug tracking system and write their concerns and let everyone up-vote it and get the management to address them. Organizing is so easy and transparent with technology. You do not have to use old-fashioned politically motivated words like "workers union"

rvail2 10y ago
"so easy and transparent" Maybe for you, but perhaps not everyone has your experience. Unions have there place, even today.
- yanilkr 10y ago
  yes exactly. the unions can be on the cloud.
walshemj 10y ago
unfortunately this will lead to retaliation against those organising employers are not above hireling shady organisations to break unions - who would have no compunctions in hacking such an online system.
- tammer 10y ago
  Yes retaliation would be swift here, or the concerns would be bluntly ignored - this is why union organizing is a skilled effort and not something that can be fixed via algorithm.
- VikingCoder 10y ago
  ...which is why unions depend on customers organizing a boycott.
VikingCoder 10y ago
You're assuming management is unaware of the problems, and is of their own intention wanting to fix the problems. That's not necessarily the case. Managers often get bonuses for achieving goals that are only possible by treating workers poorly. Until there is negative reinforcement for that (union walkout), there's not much motivation to change things.
- yanilkr 10y ago
  Why would you make such unsubstantiated claims about "management" in general? Were you in management? What did you do differently to address such problems? This lack of trust in "management" and politicizing working to a damaging extent might be the biggest reasons why manufacturing will never come back to America.
  - VikingCoder 10y ago
    I'm a software developer. What I know about manufacturing, I learned from my Grandfather, who lived through the depression, worked 4 jobs all the time, and died from the emphysema he caught from inhaling the fumes from unsafe chemicals in the factories he worked in - back before there were adequate protections FORCED upon those companies by organized labor and the government. But that's harping on the past. No, I'm talking about my own personal experience as a software engineer. I've seen managers get big bonuses for denying their workers vacation time. I've seen employees get "disciplined and fired" for minor infractions, that I'm certain had NOTHING to do with their medical conditions that were driving up the costs of the company's medical plan (that would be illegal!) And more, I don't even NEED the evidence I've presented. I'm drawing the cost-benefit analysis in raw terms. And I'm saying SOME managers play that analysis in ways that hurt workers, and think those costs (of hurting employees, employee morale, reputation of the company) will be short-term, and are worth the short-term benefits. This blind faith that managers will always do right by their employees ignores the facts. Some managers don't. And workers need to protect themselves from those few who are dangerously abusive.

by yanilkr 10y ago

rvail2 10y ago

"so easy and transparent" Maybe for you, but perhaps not everyone has your experience. Unions have there place, even today.

yanilkr 10y ago
yes exactly. the unions can be on the cloud.

walshemj 10y ago

unfortunately this will lead to retaliation against those organising employers are not above hireling shady organisations to break unions - who would have no compunctions in hacking such an online system.

tammer 10y ago
Yes retaliation would be swift here, or the concerns would be bluntly ignored - this is why union organizing is a skilled effort and not something that can be fixed via algorithm.
VikingCoder 10y ago
...which is why unions depend on customers organizing a boycott.

VikingCoder 10y ago

You're assuming management is unaware of the problems, and is of their own intention wanting to fix the problems. That's not necessarily the case. Managers often get bonuses for achieving goals that are only possible by treating workers poorly. Until there is negative reinforcement for that (union walkout), there's not much motivation to change things.

yanilkr 10y ago
Why would you make such unsubstantiated claims about "management" in general? Were you in management? What did you do differently to address such problems? This lack of trust in "management" and politicizing working to a damaging extent might be the biggest reasons why manufacturing will never come back to America.
- VikingCoder 10y ago
  I'm a software developer. What I know about manufacturing, I learned from my Grandfather, who lived through the depression, worked 4 jobs all the time, and died from the emphysema he caught from inhaling the fumes from unsafe chemicals in the factories he worked in - back before there were adequate protections FORCED upon those companies by organized labor and the government. But that's harping on the past. No, I'm talking about my own personal experience as a software engineer. I've seen managers get big bonuses for denying their workers vacation time. I've seen employees get "disciplined and fired" for minor infractions, that I'm certain had NOTHING to do with their medical conditions that were driving up the costs of the company's medical plan (that would be illegal!) And more, I don't even NEED the evidence I've presented. I'm drawing the cost-benefit analysis in raw terms. And I'm saying SOME managers play that analysis in ways that hurt workers, and think those costs (of hurting employees, employee morale, reputation of the company) will be short-term, and are worth the short-term benefits. This blind faith that managers will always do right by their employees ignores the facts. Some managers don't. And workers need to protect themselves from those few who are dangerously abusive.