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> I think maybe you’re not picturing how such a regulation would work in practice. Suppose someone who looks like a woman goes into the women’s bathroom. Do you

> I think maybe you’re not picturing how such a regulation would work in practice. Suppose someone who looks like a woman goes into the women’s bathroom. Do you ask them if they have a penis, or do you just let them use the bathroom? If you're trying to reason about what social conservatives think, it probably doesn't help to concoct some strawman half-LGBT half-social conservative ideology. A social conservative ideology doesn't have the dilemma you describe because, for them, gender expression should conform to sex. Any... > interest in whether any given woman is a transwoman or a cis woman ...was foisted on social conservatives from outside. They don't have an innate interest or need for such finely-graded labels.

foldr 10y ago
Conservatives, if they’re in favor of restricting bathroom use based on biological gender, have to decide whether or not they want to enforce this regulation. Enforcing it requires attending to the difference between cis women and transwomen. So clearly they do have the dilemma I described.
- x1798DE 10y ago
  > Enforcing it requires attending to the difference between cis women and transwomen. So clearly they do have the dilemma I described. Conservatives of the flavor you are talking about consider trans-women to be men. They don't need to differentiate because they are trying to impose a simpler rule than that. In practice, if they wanted to enforce their rule, they could just require ID to use a toilet and require that the ID specify gender at birth (as verified by birth certificate). The current state of the person's genitals does not have to play into it. Obviously enforcing such a rule (or really any bathroom rule) strictly would be incredibly annoying and basically pointless, and in practice it would be enforced about as intermittently as almost any other rules, but at no point do they actually care whether or not you currently have a penis.
  - foldr 10y ago
    >Conservatives of the flavor you are talking about consider trans-women to be men. This point is not lost on me. I noted it in several of the posts that you're replying to. >They don't need to differentiate To enforce the rule, they need to differentiate between transwomen and cis women, since they do not consider the former to be women, and think that cis women, but not transwomen, should be allowed to use the women's restroom. You acknowledge this yourself in other parts of your post. >In practice, if they wanted to enforce their rule, they could just require ID to use a toilet and require that the ID specify gender at birth (as verified by birth certificate). The current state of the person's genitals does not have to play into it. This is a weird and pedantic objection. You're saying that they care about whether or not the person in question was born with a penis rather than whether or not they currently have one. Ok, but so what? Then you have to ask everyone who goes to the women's bathroom whether they were born with a penis.

foldr 10y ago

Conservatives, if they’re in favor of restricting bathroom use based on biological gender, have to decide whether or not they want to enforce this regulation. Enforcing it requires attending to the difference between cis women and transwomen. So clearly they do have the dilemma I described.

x1798DE 10y ago
> Enforcing it requires attending to the difference between cis women and transwomen. So clearly they do have the dilemma I described. Conservatives of the flavor you are talking about consider trans-women to be men. They don't need to differentiate because they are trying to impose a simpler rule than that. In practice, if they wanted to enforce their rule, they could just require ID to use a toilet and require that the ID specify gender at birth (as verified by birth certificate). The current state of the person's genitals does not have to play into it. Obviously enforcing such a rule (or really any bathroom rule) strictly would be incredibly annoying and basically pointless, and in practice it would be enforced about as intermittently as almost any other rules, but at no point do they actually care whether or not you currently have a penis.
- foldr 10y ago
  >Conservatives of the flavor you are talking about consider trans-women to be men. This point is not lost on me. I noted it in several of the posts that you're replying to. >They don't need to differentiate To enforce the rule, they need to differentiate between transwomen and cis women, since they do not consider the former to be women, and think that cis women, but not transwomen, should be allowed to use the women's restroom. You acknowledge this yourself in other parts of your post. >In practice, if they wanted to enforce their rule, they could just require ID to use a toilet and require that the ID specify gender at birth (as verified by birth certificate). The current state of the person's genitals does not have to play into it. This is a weird and pedantic objection. You're saying that they care about whether or not the person in question was born with a penis rather than whether or not they currently have one. Ok, but so what? Then you have to ask everyone who goes to the women's bathroom whether they were born with a penis.