6 ms·

> when vi was originally produced most popular keyboard was IBM XT. Probably not, since the IBM XT was five years in the future. The canonical vi keyboard is

by kps 10y ago

> when vi was originally produced most popular keyboard was IBM XT. Probably not, since the IBM XT was five years in the future. The canonical vi keyboard is the ADM-3A. http://terminals-wiki.org/wiki/index.php/File:Lear_Siegler_ADM-3A-2.jpg http://terminals-wiki.org/wiki/index.php/File:Lear_Siegler_A... Escape is almost as accessible as Control. The ADM-3A also explains why shells use ‘~’ to represent the home directory.

a-b 10y ago
You're right, thanks for your correction. My main point was a location of the Control key. I guess with IBM XT keyboard CTRL-[ become a most reasonable option https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_PC_keyboard#/media/File:IBM_Model_F_XT.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_PC_keyboard#/media/File:IB...
ntumlin 10y ago
I was curious about some keys I hadn't seen before, so for anyone curious, here's the purpose of the "rub" and "here is" keys (from the ADM-3A operators manual[0] page 3-7 and 3-8): RUB. When the RUB (rubout) key is typed while holding down the SHIFT key, a non-displayable rubout code (ASCII DEL) is transmitted to the computer. The cursor is not advanced and the character code stored in display memory is not overwritten. RUB is normally used to tell the computer that a previous character should be deleted. HERE IS. If the Answer Back option is installed, typing this key transmits an identification message (stored in a special ADM-3A memory) that identifies the terminal and alerts the host computer that a message is to follow. If no Answer Back option is installed, the key has no function. [0] http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/altair/d/adm3a.pdf http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/altair/d/adm3a.pdf
- kps 10y ago
  For the reason DEL is shifted ‘_’, see your friendly neighbourhood ASCII table, and/or one of the recent HN threads¹. The ADM-3A² is a good example of a bit-paired keyboard³. ¹ https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13539552 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13539552 ² https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADM-3A https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADM-3A ³ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bit-paired_keyboard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bit-paired_keyboard
rthomas6 10y ago
Also notice the arrows on H J K L.
- WildUtah 10y ago
  Promoting bad habits. Don't use the left-right arrow keys to move around!
  - theviajerock 10y ago
    The left - right with the H J K L keys? Or the normal Keys ? And why is this a bad habit?
    - WildUtah 10y ago
      Moving around with hjkl is a bad habit to be discouraged. It's not the vi way. Well, j and k are fine if you're not moving far. A lot of slow scrolling up and down should be { and } or C-d and C-u or <count>[jk]. Even better: Use / and ?. It's bad to be repeatedly tapping j and k or waiting for the keys to repeat. But h and l are the EMACS approach. You should be moving in a line with w, e, b, f, F, t, T, ^, $, I, A, 0, and the like. Vi provides lots of tools for efficient line editing and h and l are not good. Beginners should try :noremap h <nop> :noremap l <nop> to keep them from the temptation of the nefarious h and l keys. Lately I use :no h ^ :no l $ which is even better because ^ and $ require moving your hands off the home row even though they're much better than h and l for you.
      - falcolas 10y ago
        Huh. The "vim way" goal posts have moved even further. Used to be "no-op your arrow keys and use hjkl", now it's "noop your hjkl keys". Something I, as a dedicated VIM user, will never do. 'hjkl' work fine, and are a good addition to 'we{}$0' and so forth. I can't personally find the value of hobbling myself for the sake of meeting someone else's definition of the ideal user. I even occasionally use the arrow keys. Heresy, I know.
flukus 10y ago
> The ADM-3A also explains why shells use ‘~’ to represent the home directory. Is that also the origin of '^' being start of line in a regex?
- kps 10y ago
  Good guess, but no. The ADM-3A dates to 1976, but the regular expression syntax is definitely earlier: https://www.bell-labs.com/usr/dmr/www/qedman.html https://www.bell-labs.com/usr/dmr/www/qedman.html
j-pb 10y ago
Wow this is a better and cleaner/streamlined keyboard layout than I have on my 2015 MacBook Pro :(

by kps 10y ago

a-b 10y ago

You're right, thanks for your correction. My main point was a location of the Control key. I guess with IBM XT keyboard CTRL-[ become a most reasonable option https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_PC_keyboard#/media/File:IBM_Model_F_XT.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_PC_keyboard#/media/File:IB...

ntumlin 10y ago

I was curious about some keys I hadn't seen before, so for anyone curious, here's the purpose of the "rub" and "here is" keys (from the ADM-3A operators manual[0] page 3-7 and 3-8): RUB. When the RUB (rubout) key is typed while holding down the SHIFT key, a non-displayable rubout code (ASCII DEL) is transmitted to the computer. The cursor is not advanced and the character code stored in display memory is not overwritten. RUB is normally used to tell the computer that a previous character should be deleted. HERE IS. If the Answer Back option is installed, typing this key transmits an identification message (stored in a special ADM-3A memory) that identifies the terminal and alerts the host computer that a message is to follow. If no Answer Back option is installed, the key has no function. [0] http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/altair/d/adm3a.pdf http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/altair/d/adm3a.pdf

kps 10y ago
For the reason DEL is shifted ‘_’, see your friendly neighbourhood ASCII table, and/or one of the recent HN threads¹. The ADM-3A² is a good example of a bit-paired keyboard³. ¹ https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13539552 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13539552 ² https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADM-3A https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADM-3A ³ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bit-paired_keyboard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bit-paired_keyboard

rthomas6 10y ago

Also notice the arrows on H J K L.

WildUtah 10y ago
Promoting bad habits. Don't use the left-right arrow keys to move around!
- theviajerock 10y ago
  The left - right with the H J K L keys? Or the normal Keys ? And why is this a bad habit?
  - WildUtah 10y ago
    Moving around with hjkl is a bad habit to be discouraged. It's not the vi way. Well, j and k are fine if you're not moving far. A lot of slow scrolling up and down should be { and } or C-d and C-u or <count>[jk]. Even better: Use / and ?. It's bad to be repeatedly tapping j and k or waiting for the keys to repeat. But h and l are the EMACS approach. You should be moving in a line with w, e, b, f, F, t, T, ^, $, I, A, 0, and the like. Vi provides lots of tools for efficient line editing and h and l are not good. Beginners should try :noremap h <nop> :noremap l <nop> to keep them from the temptation of the nefarious h and l keys. Lately I use :no h ^ :no l $ which is even better because ^ and $ require moving your hands off the home row even though they're much better than h and l for you.
    - falcolas 10y ago
      Huh. The "vim way" goal posts have moved even further. Used to be "no-op your arrow keys and use hjkl", now it's "noop your hjkl keys". Something I, as a dedicated VIM user, will never do. 'hjkl' work fine, and are a good addition to 'we{}$0' and so forth. I can't personally find the value of hobbling myself for the sake of meeting someone else's definition of the ideal user. I even occasionally use the arrow keys. Heresy, I know.

flukus 10y ago

> The ADM-3A also explains why shells use ‘~’ to represent the home directory. Is that also the origin of '^' being start of line in a regex?

kps 10y ago
Good guess, but no. The ADM-3A dates to 1976, but the regular expression syntax is definitely earlier: https://www.bell-labs.com/usr/dmr/www/qedman.html https://www.bell-labs.com/usr/dmr/www/qedman.html

j-pb 10y ago

Wow this is a better and cleaner/streamlined keyboard layout than I have on my 2015 MacBook Pro :(