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Refusing to voluntarily engage in commerce is hardly censorship. All this post is saying is "We're totally fine with neo-Nazis, so long as we make some money fr

Refusing to voluntarily engage in commerce is hardly censorship. All this post is saying is "We're totally fine with neo-Nazis, so long as we make some money from them." A principled boycott is not censorship, it is further free expression. Shame on shopify for abandoning principles in favor of profit.

vaadu 10y ago
The Nazis are the folks calling for censorship. The Ctrl-left folks better do some introspection or they will be next. http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/317248-dnc-boots-candidate-from-chairmans-race-for-criticizing-ellisons-islamic http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/317248-dnc-boots-candid...
- diyorgasms 10y ago
  What I see is a bigot being censured. Arguably someone that islamophobic has no place in a civilized debate.
  - tomp 10y ago
    Why do you think it's OK to shun Nazis, but not OK to shun Muslims? Both are opinions/belief systems, hence a choice, and both are, in their extreme versions, quite brutal.
    - diyorgasms 10y ago
      Is this a serious question? It should be evident why it's okay to ostracize an ideology founded on the belief in genocide of "lesser" people. While some interpretations of Islam lead to violence, the same can be said about probably any religion, and Islam is not foundationally rooted in violence. If you legitimately can't tell the difference between a genocidal ideology and a religion then I cannot continue this conversation.
      - tomp 10y ago
        Islam (like any religion) is based on the idea that this religion is better than any other religion (or belief system, like atheism). Nazism is based on the idea that being white/Aryan is better than others. You could argue that Islam was foundationally rooted in violence. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Muslim_conquests https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Muslim_conquests
        diyorgasms 10y ago
        If this is true for any religion, as you claim, then why the inordinate focus on Islam? It seems like bigotry against Muslims is the most likely explanation. Also claims of being the "one true religion" no not inherently incite genocide, whereas Nazism does.
        tomp 10y ago
        In principle, it's the same for any religion - I don't think that discrimination on the basis of religion is any different from discrimination on the basis of any opinion (not that Jewish can be an ethnicity as well as religion). However, religions such as Judaism and Christianity don't punish heretism with death, and in general their proponents seem to be much less radicalized than many of the proponents of Islam (there are exceptions, of course - e.g. Mormons or Hasidic Jews). I'd guess Christianity was also similar before enlightenment, and sometimes even after it!
tomp 10y ago
Did you also support Visa's and MasterCard's decisions to stop transactions to WikiLeaks?
- diyorgasms 10y ago
  No but I don't think they should be legally required to process payments if they don't want to. I found other payment methods where I could though and did what little I could to oppose that decision.
sandov 10y ago
Abandoning principles?. Why is it unethical to trade with neo-Nazis?

vaadu 10y ago

The Nazis are the folks calling for censorship. The Ctrl-left folks better do some introspection or they will be next. http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/317248-dnc-boots-candidate-from-chairmans-race-for-criticizing-ellisons-islamic http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/317248-dnc-boots-candid...

diyorgasms 10y ago
What I see is a bigot being censured. Arguably someone that islamophobic has no place in a civilized debate.
- tomp 10y ago
  Why do you think it's OK to shun Nazis, but not OK to shun Muslims? Both are opinions/belief systems, hence a choice, and both are, in their extreme versions, quite brutal.
  - diyorgasms 10y ago
    Is this a serious question? It should be evident why it's okay to ostracize an ideology founded on the belief in genocide of "lesser" people. While some interpretations of Islam lead to violence, the same can be said about probably any religion, and Islam is not foundationally rooted in violence. If you legitimately can't tell the difference between a genocidal ideology and a religion then I cannot continue this conversation.
    - tomp 10y ago
      Islam (like any religion) is based on the idea that this religion is better than any other religion (or belief system, like atheism). Nazism is based on the idea that being white/Aryan is better than others. You could argue that Islam was foundationally rooted in violence. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Muslim_conquests https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Muslim_conquests
      - diyorgasms 10y ago
        If this is true for any religion, as you claim, then why the inordinate focus on Islam? It seems like bigotry against Muslims is the most likely explanation. Also claims of being the "one true religion" no not inherently incite genocide, whereas Nazism does.
        tomp 10y ago
        In principle, it's the same for any religion - I don't think that discrimination on the basis of religion is any different from discrimination on the basis of any opinion (not that Jewish can be an ethnicity as well as religion). However, religions such as Judaism and Christianity don't punish heretism with death, and in general their proponents seem to be much less radicalized than many of the proponents of Islam (there are exceptions, of course - e.g. Mormons or Hasidic Jews). I'd guess Christianity was also similar before enlightenment, and sometimes even after it!

tomp 10y ago

Did you also support Visa's and MasterCard's decisions to stop transactions to WikiLeaks?

diyorgasms 10y ago
No but I don't think they should be legally required to process payments if they don't want to. I found other payment methods where I could though and did what little I could to oppose that decision.

sandov 10y ago

Abandoning principles?. Why is it unethical to trade with neo-Nazis?