6 ms·
Suppose there was a breed of, say, monkey, that was popular as a household pet. They were considered to be quite clever and could be trained, over some years,
by 13of40 10y ago
Suppose there was a breed of, say, monkey, that was popular as a household pet. They were considered to be quite clever and could be trained, over some years, to use a toilet, fetch things from the fridge, even manage primitive forms of communication. The only problem is that they're a genetic trainwreck. They've got a pronounced, gourd-like head with a snout so compact that it's common to have to surgically remove some of their teeth. They've got limited ability in their front legs that forces them to spend their entire life in an abnormal posture, resulting in a cornucopia of spinal and joint problems that cause many of them lifelong pain. On top of all this, all of their natural defenses (claws, canines, protective fur) have been bred out and disease traits bred in (myopia, hemophilia, diabetes, and so on). Now, knowing all of this, suppose your sister, who already has three of these things running around her house, calls up and gleefully announces that they're getting another one. What do you tell her?
- elthran 10y agoWell, when the monkey gets older it can use tools to defend itself, as well as keep itself alive. However, I would perhaps suggest teaching it abstinence, sterlilisation if it has one of the particularly debilitating genetic diseases
- maxerickson 10y agoHumans are apes not monkeys. What if you sister called and said there was a safe, cheap and effective way to remove, say, the myopia from her spawn (in the case of dogs, stop inbreeding, in the case of humans, currently imaginary)? Would you tell her not to do it?
- 13of40 10y agoI had some in-laws at one point who had a kid with cystic fibrosis, and they decided to roll the dice and have a second one. (Murphy's Law won that round.) I can't imagine convincing those people to get their $1200 purebred pug[1] neutered for the good of the species. [1] https://www.reference.com/pets-animals/much-pugs-87fd8b209cadf864 https://www.reference.com/pets-animals/much-pugs-87fd8b209ca...
- maxerickson 10y agoI imagine the thing to do would be to sell healthy dogs for $1500 (make sure lots of people say they are worth $1500).
- darod 10y agoso their second kid had CF too?
- steve_b 10y agoWe aren't apes or monkeys. http://johnhawks.net/weblog/topics/phylogeny/taxonomy/humans-arent-apes-2012.html http://johnhawks.net/weblog/topics/phylogeny/taxonomy/humans...
- mikebenfield 10y agoThat is a very long-winded and opinionated article just to make the point that "ape" is not a taxonomic term, and it's not used completely consistently. In any case, please don't promote anti-science articles (this one begins by complaining about "those who accept and promote evolution").
- mdemare 10y agoThe writer is a Professor of Anthropology. Don't jump to conclusions.
- steve_b 10y agosorry, i came across way too bluntly. i really should have noted how suprised i was the an expert thinks its a misconception to think of ourselves as apes. in any case, i think the author is very much in favour of science.
- mdemare 10y agoHmm. We're "Great Apes" (hominids), but not "Apes"? That seems to violate common sense, in my opinion.
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- adamnemecek 10y agoI've had good success with telling people about how the industry works. These people probably like dogs (which is why they are getting them) and showing them that dogs suffer quite a bit due to their choices can be convincing.
- Declanomous 10y agohttps://xkcd.com/1650/ https://xkcd.com/1650/ But comparing humans to dogs in that matter is kind of ridiculous. This is more like if your sister called and said "I just read about chinese foot binding, and I think it's a great idea so I'm going to do it to my children!" That's basically what people who only accept dogs who have debilitatingly short snouts, etc. are doing.
- zardo 10y agoPeople aren't binding pug's snouts. They just grow into hideously deformed beasts all on their own like people do.
- maxerickson 10y agoThe successive generations of pure breeding are pretty artificially imposed.
- mulletbum 10y agoI think your confusing breeding with tail docking.
- Declanomous 10y agoI'm really not. Foot binding is similarly debilitating to the squished snout. It wasn't possible to choose an example that was literally the same because human's don't breed themselves for deformities. If anything, now that we can test, many people take steps to make sure their children don't end up with debilitating traits. Having back issues when you are 60 isn't even remotely in the same league as the back issues these dogs end up with.
- 13of40 10y ago> humans don't breed themselves for deformities. Except maybe intelligence, I fail to see how the traits we breed for could be considered anything but deformities if a baboon had them.
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- refurb 10y agoMy response would be "Is it possible to get a version of this monkey without these problems? No? Then go ahead."
- throwaway729 10y agoI mean, incest is illegal in many places. One of the major justifications (although perhaps not the main driver) is birth defects. So.
- openasocket 10y agoI mean, I know you're being ironic, but that's really an inaccurate view of people. Sure, we have certain diseases, but we're hardly unique in that regard. We live decades longer than our closest relatives, even without medical intervention. In terms of natural defenses, we are an apex predator, and have been even in the hunter-gatherer days. Even ignoring the fact that we are the most intelligent species on the planet, we're also one of the greatest distance runners in the animal kingdom.
- tptacek 10y agoProbably nothing. Monkeys are a telling example: almost nobody cares for a monkey, so in the absence of some genetically compromised monkey bred for suitability as pets, there not only would be no pet monkeys, but also fewer monkeys overall, as humans edge monkeys out of their habitats more and more every year.