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Before I had to give my pug up this past summer - I used to take him for good length jog daily, and he would frequently out pace me. If a pug is in shape, it wi

by divbit 10y ago

Before I had to give my pug up this past summer - I used to take him for good length jog daily, and he would frequently out pace me. If a pug is in shape, it will do great. If you just feed it hotdogs all day and only infrequently give it proper exercise, then yes, I could see it being an anatomical disaster. Compare this dog's fitness http://imgur.com/a/doIi9 http://imgur.com/a/doIi9 with the dog in the linked article.

liveoneggs 10y ago
your pug seems to have a slightly longer nose but I agree- pugs are a breed that seems to live a long time with pretty good health. I've known more than a few pugs older than 15 years.
- sovnade 10y ago
  Yep - had a pug when I was younger who had a more pronounced snout. No breathing issues, didn't get super dirty in his folds, etc. His mother on the other hand had a super flat face and had all of the typical pug issues. The tiniest bit of a snout makes a huge difference.
hashkb 10y ago
I'm afraid you may be missing the point. The evidence you give (dog runs faster than you) doesn't really mean anything, and exercise does not affect anatomy. These are vets giving expert opinions and you are a (former) pug owner with an anecdote.
- divbit 10y ago
  Ok I will take the bait - breathing, especially over the course of lets say ~45 minute run should definitely have some relation to the part of anatomy the article was talking about (specifically, the vets are claiming that the smashed nose shape makes it harder for them to breath, in relation to other dog breeds). Surely being able to breathe correctly is necessary to run for 45-50 minutes continuously? What I am claiming, with my anecdote, is that maybe exercise can help alleviate problems related to being out-of-breath (certainly it does for people!) Based on my anecdote, one might suspect that the vets conclusions do not hold true for 'all' pugs. Maybe their argument is statistical, based on an analysis of a large number of pugs. Personally, I have seen many more out-of-shape pugs than in-shape pugs. On the other hand, maybe they are specifically arguing against very inbred variations, in which case, they are making a point against very in bred variations, and not pugs in general.
  - Nursie 10y ago
    They're arguing that you shouldn't buy a pug as at the moment because a large proportion of the population of pugs will suffer terrible health problems That you had a single individual that you believe did not suffer from the issues related to extreme brachycephaly doesn't really tell us much. The problems are only partly related to inbreeding - selecting for dogs with such squashed heads is bad in and of itself.
    - Raphmedia 10y ago
      So get the ones that are fit like the one in the anecdote and breed them? This entire thread is such a non-issue.
      - Nursie 10y ago
        That's not happening, breeders are breeding dogs that uave all sorts of problems and people are buying them in droves. That's the issue!
        Raphmedia 10y ago
        Is it really an issue? As long as the animal is happy, I don't see the problem of a shorter lifespan. You can simply (and sadly) have it put down in an humane way once it starts to get health issues. Plenty of pets don't make it past 8 years.
    - divbit 10y ago
      What I am trying to point out is that it should be impossible to enjoy prolonged daily aerobic exercise under the constant respiratory distress the article is claiming for 'all such brachycephalic dogs.' Let me quote directly from the article: "The only time these dogs are not in some degree of respiratory distress is when you have them intubated under anaesthetic." What I am claiming, as a proof by contradiction of sorts, is that with proper exercise, it is possible that such a dog will not suffer from respiratory distress all the time, like the article is clearly claiming.

by divbit 10y ago

liveoneggs 10y ago

your pug seems to have a slightly longer nose but I agree- pugs are a breed that seems to live a long time with pretty good health. I've known more than a few pugs older than 15 years.

sovnade 10y ago
Yep - had a pug when I was younger who had a more pronounced snout. No breathing issues, didn't get super dirty in his folds, etc. His mother on the other hand had a super flat face and had all of the typical pug issues. The tiniest bit of a snout makes a huge difference.

hashkb 10y ago

I'm afraid you may be missing the point. The evidence you give (dog runs faster than you) doesn't really mean anything, and exercise does not affect anatomy. These are vets giving expert opinions and you are a (former) pug owner with an anecdote.

divbit 10y ago
Ok I will take the bait - breathing, especially over the course of lets say ~45 minute run should definitely have some relation to the part of anatomy the article was talking about (specifically, the vets are claiming that the smashed nose shape makes it harder for them to breath, in relation to other dog breeds). Surely being able to breathe correctly is necessary to run for 45-50 minutes continuously? What I am claiming, with my anecdote, is that maybe exercise can help alleviate problems related to being out-of-breath (certainly it does for people!) Based on my anecdote, one might suspect that the vets conclusions do not hold true for 'all' pugs. Maybe their argument is statistical, based on an analysis of a large number of pugs. Personally, I have seen many more out-of-shape pugs than in-shape pugs. On the other hand, maybe they are specifically arguing against very inbred variations, in which case, they are making a point against very in bred variations, and not pugs in general.
- Nursie 10y ago
  They're arguing that you shouldn't buy a pug as at the moment because a large proportion of the population of pugs will suffer terrible health problems That you had a single individual that you believe did not suffer from the issues related to extreme brachycephaly doesn't really tell us much. The problems are only partly related to inbreeding - selecting for dogs with such squashed heads is bad in and of itself.
  - Raphmedia 10y ago
    So get the ones that are fit like the one in the anecdote and breed them? This entire thread is such a non-issue.
    - Nursie 10y ago
      That's not happening, breeders are breeding dogs that uave all sorts of problems and people are buying them in droves. That's the issue!
      - Raphmedia 10y ago
        Is it really an issue? As long as the animal is happy, I don't see the problem of a shorter lifespan. You can simply (and sadly) have it put down in an humane way once it starts to get health issues. Plenty of pets don't make it past 8 years.
  - divbit 10y ago
    What I am trying to point out is that it should be impossible to enjoy prolonged daily aerobic exercise under the constant respiratory distress the article is claiming for 'all such brachycephalic dogs.' Let me quote directly from the article: "The only time these dogs are not in some degree of respiratory distress is when you have them intubated under anaesthetic." What I am claiming, as a proof by contradiction of sorts, is that with proper exercise, it is possible that such a dog will not suffer from respiratory distress all the time, like the article is clearly claiming.