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I'm entirely unconvinced by your argument regarding backing up a perfect forward secrecy chat. PFS is about preventing any listener of the messages in-transit f
by kelnage 10y ago
I'm entirely unconvinced by your argument regarding backing up a perfect forward secrecy chat. PFS is about preventing any listener of the messages in-transit from ever effectively decrypting those messages - it says nothing about security guarantees once the message is received.
It'd be like arguing that by enabling PFS also creates a social contract that the receiver guarantees that their device isn't compromised. Or that webservers that use PFS in TLS don't log most/all of the details for the requests they receive. I don't believe either of these to be true.
You seem to have extrapolated some social properties from a purely technical property and assumed everyone must think about it in the same way as you. But in doing so, you've made your protocol weaker against realistic attacks.
Oh, and the likelihood of an attacker stealing a device with WhatsApp installed and only being able to extract the identity keys and not the cached messages seems absurdly improbable.
Personally, I wish you'd either tried to work with OWS/WhatsApp/whoever to integrate in what makes keybase.io great (providing identity verification - something that all these could use) and not gone about adding to the already crowded area of chat providers.
- oconnor663 10y agoTo be clear, all of Keybase's client-server traffic goes over TLS and benefits from TLS's forward secrecy on the wire.
- kelnage 10y agoI can believe that is the case, but that just moves the attack vector to within Keybase's network, it doesn't mitigate it completely.
- Natanael_L 10y agoPlease see this comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13605873 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13605873 Nothing stops you from going full PFS. In fact, you could even flip it around and let a shared notepad connected to the chat represent what you want to remember permanently, while the chat could remain ephemeral. This makes for more accurate expectations and less risk of user error.