I wonder if some people who said it sounded idiomatic to them are parsing it as "with Wine and without (it)" as opposed to "in Wine and without"/"within Wine an

I wonder if some people who said it sounded idiomatic to them are parsing it as "with Wine and without (it)" as opposed to "in Wine and without"/"within Wine and without". I think the non-U.S. usage is specifically the latter, which the original poster seems to have intended. The non-U.S. usage would be meaning 1 of without as a preposition at https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/without#Preposition https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/without#Preposition which Wiktionary says is "archaic or literary". If it's still current in Commonwealth English, Wiktionary should probably be updated. :-)