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From Scott Adams: "If you want an average successful life, it doesn’t take much planning. Just stay out of trouble, go to school, and apply for jobs you might

by orasis 10y ago

From Scott Adams: "If you want an average successful life, it doesn’t take much planning. Just stay out of trouble, go to school, and apply for jobs you might like. But if you want something extraordinary, you have two paths: 1. Become the best at one specific thing. 2. Become very good (top 25%) at two or more things. The first strategy is difficult to the point of near impossibility. Few people will ever play in the NBA or make a platinum album. I don’t recommend anyone even try. The second strategy is fairly easy. Everyone has at least a few areas in which they could be in the top 25% with some effort. In my case, I can draw better than most people, but I’m hardly an artist. And I’m not any funnier than the average standup comedian who never makes it big, but I’m funnier than most people. The magic is that few people can draw well and write jokes. It’s the combination of the two that makes what I do so rare. And when you add in my business background, suddenly I had a topic that few cartoonists could hope to understand without living it. I always advise young people to become good public speakers (top 25%). Anyone can do it with practice. If you add that talent to any other, suddenly you’re the boss of the people who have only one skill. Or get a degree in business on top of your engineering degree, law degree, medical degree, science degree, or whatever. Suddenly you’re in charge, or maybe you’re starting your own company using your combined knowledge." http://dilbertblog.typepad.com/the_dilbert_blog/2007/07/career-advice.html http://dilbertblog.typepad.com/the_dilbert_blog/2007/07/care...

flukus 10y ago
> I always advise young people to become good public speakers (top 25%). Anyone can do it with practice. Wasn't he suffering from word soup around this time?
- elliotec 10y ago
  What do you mean? That made perfect sense.
  - flukus 10y ago
    Word salad was the term I was thinking of (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophasia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophasia), for a while he couldn't speak publicly because he would just say random words instead.
    - cableshaft 10y ago
      You don't have to personally be doing every little thing you advise someone of doing. Perhaps it's something that didn't work for him (because he physically had issues speaking), but he recognized it as being important for other people to do.
hackuser 10y ago
> If you want an average successful life, it doesn’t take much planning. Just stay out of trouble, go to school, and apply for jobs you might like. I wonder why so few manage it then? Perhaps it was easy for Scott Adams, but most people have different experiences. What if you can't afford college, for example?
- xiaoma 10y ago
  I think by "average successful" he means something like being able to pay rent and raise children (if that's a goal) and living to retirement age.
  - cableshaft 10y ago
    So being able to get through life with your basic needs and propagate is the definition of success now? I mean I guess that's certainly true to a certain extent, but that bar seems damn low. It does feel like it's a difficult bar for so many people to clear nowadays, though.
    - colefichter 10y ago
      > So being able to get through life with your basic needs and propagate is the definition of success now? For a lot of people... yeah, that's true. When people say that HN is a bubble, they mean it. I don't know anything about your background, but have any of your friends ever said something like "my biggest dream in life is to be a mom"? Here in Canada, I've heard that from several friends. For a lot of us on HN that might sound trivial, but we're a strange bunch in our own special ways :)
      - cableshaft 10y ago
        I'm from the Midwestern US, so yeah, I've certainly heard that quite a few times (dated a couple women like that, even). But I never saw that as something unachievable by most people, which I know isn't the strict definition of success, but to me, success is when you've managed to do something that a lot of people can't do. A lot of people won't reach it, or won't bother to try to achieve it, but you have. Winning the state spelling bee could meet that criteria. Publishing a book, saving people's lives, etc. But going to a grocery store and buying food, and finding someone willing to have sex with you until you or they get pregnant and then not totally fucking up when raising the kids is not really something that 'most people can't or won't achieve'. People manage it all the time. Sure it's not easy, especially with the way health care, housing, education, and daycare costs have skyrocketed and made it much more difficult and stressful, but most people who want to do it still somehow manage it. I guess I just have a different perception on what it means to be successful. I'm pretty much just arguing semantics, really, and I'm sorry for that. I'm just surprised that's considered to be successful.
jjcm 10y ago
Becoming moderately good at two things is how I ended up where I am. Before I went to college I did freelance graphic design. In college I ended up studying computer science, simply because that's what my brother majored in. The two combined meant I was getting job offers in my sophomore year. I can't stress just how much it helps when I'm applying for jobs - not only do I have a wider selection (design and programming jobs), but it also opens up niche jobs which are typically in high demand and low supply (prototyper, my current role). Scott's advice here is spot on and is the first thing I recommend to people when they're looking to prepare to enter the workforce.
- superplussed 10y ago
  I have a similar skill set combining graphic design and programming, but I find those niche jobs of prototyping to be in very short demand, where are you seeing the opposite? The lack of opportunity to flex my creative muscles actually drives me to create my own startups because it's the only type of project where I feel I can utilize all of my strengths instead of being pigeonholed into a developer role.
xiaoma 10y ago
I saw this same advice on Marc Andresen's blog a long time ago: http://pmarchive.com/guide_to_career_planning_part2.html http://pmarchive.com/guide_to_career_planning_part2.html One third strategy I've seen but unfortunately don't quite have the temperament for is: 3. Become the best at one very specific thing. Unlike becoming the best at something hugely popular, there's a lot less competition once you niche down far enough. I've seen people do this with as youtuber analysts of a specific video game, as creators of art using an unusual medium, as bloggers with freemium content focused on a specific niche and with marketers who specialize in both an acquisition channel and an industry. What's appealing about this is that after becoming #1 in a niche, it's often possible to use the success there to springboard into a larger territory, learn new skills and then enter either path #1 or path #2 with a significant advantage.
- sjg007 10y ago
  This can explain the C level of a company. Typically, these people are good speakers and good at something else: finance, sales, technology ... also SV typically has looked down on MBAs but that is probably a mistake. They're good at networking, speaking and probably have some other technical skills.
geebee 10y ago
This is great advice, but you have to be more entrepreneurial, or at least have more personal initiative, to take option 2, especially in high tech. Here's the problem - if you apply at a company that follows the standard "technical interview", you will be tested on one thing only - your coding ability at a whiteboard. Here's what can happen. An employee at the 89%ile in writing, speaking, sales, and coding would be very valuable and rare.. However, this employee must interview with 5 people, all of whom filter out anyone who doesn't land in the top 10%ile. Companies rarely create jobs for this sort of multifaceted worker who is top 25% in many areas but not quite top 10% in any of them. Truth is, they don't really understand what this is or why it would be valuable. A software developer might benefit tremendously from expertise in these other fields, but if you don't do really well in the whiteboard exercise, you're out. As a result, software interviews tend to filter out people who can present, write, or sell well. Those workers are still out there, of course, but I think companies reduce the probability that a developer will have these skills through the interview process - and I'm not sure they increase their probability of finding good developers appreciably, even when measured purely by coding skill. Of course, every inefficiency contains an opportunity. My advice to companies is to look for paths to identify and hire people who can do more than one thing. My advice to individuals is this - first, get as good at the coding tests as you possibly can. But probably better is to try to enter a company through a path that doesn't go through software engineering. Trust me, they will fail you out if you can't find all permutations of a set at the whiteboard, even if you could do this quite easily given 15 minutes and stack overflow (and fully understand what you are doing). So? Learn to code, and let that be your superpower. I know a few people who had a cs/math background and worked as analysts when they started their careers, and have learned to do quantitative analysis, programming, database design, and so forth, and they are rock stars in their fields, highly valued and often invited to speak at conferences. However, when they interview, they don't go through five hours of whiteboard exams - their interviews are actual interviews, they way almost everyone outside tech understands them. Our interviews are more or less indistinguishable from exams (except without the conventions that make exams more fair for the student, such as feedback, consistent grading, a study path, and so forth). Every now and then, when you pop your head out of the tech bubble and talk to people in other fields, you'll see that they actually shudder when they hear about what our interviews are like. Most importantly, they don't get filtered out because they haven't reviewed their textbooks from whatever they studied their second year of college book and prepared for final exams (again). Seriously, anything you can do to leave a field that forces you to do that is worth considering as an option. Like I said, this will take more personal initiative on your part. People don't really advertise these positions, you have to show the value and build your way into it. Another "problem" is that you probably won't get the pay grade for a software developer track right away - but you may build your way up, and when you get there, you'll be unusual, invaluable, and probably have a more enjoyable job.

by orasis 10y ago

flukus 10y ago

> I always advise young people to become good public speakers (top 25%). Anyone can do it with practice. Wasn't he suffering from word soup around this time?

elliotec 10y ago
What do you mean? That made perfect sense.
- flukus 10y ago
  Word salad was the term I was thinking of (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophasia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophasia), for a while he couldn't speak publicly because he would just say random words instead.
  - cableshaft 10y ago
    You don't have to personally be doing every little thing you advise someone of doing. Perhaps it's something that didn't work for him (because he physically had issues speaking), but he recognized it as being important for other people to do.

hackuser 10y ago

> If you want an average successful life, it doesn’t take much planning. Just stay out of trouble, go to school, and apply for jobs you might like. I wonder why so few manage it then? Perhaps it was easy for Scott Adams, but most people have different experiences. What if you can't afford college, for example?

xiaoma 10y ago
I think by "average successful" he means something like being able to pay rent and raise children (if that's a goal) and living to retirement age.
- cableshaft 10y ago
  So being able to get through life with your basic needs and propagate is the definition of success now? I mean I guess that's certainly true to a certain extent, but that bar seems damn low. It does feel like it's a difficult bar for so many people to clear nowadays, though.
  - colefichter 10y ago
    > So being able to get through life with your basic needs and propagate is the definition of success now? For a lot of people... yeah, that's true. When people say that HN is a bubble, they mean it. I don't know anything about your background, but have any of your friends ever said something like "my biggest dream in life is to be a mom"? Here in Canada, I've heard that from several friends. For a lot of us on HN that might sound trivial, but we're a strange bunch in our own special ways :)
    - cableshaft 10y ago
      I'm from the Midwestern US, so yeah, I've certainly heard that quite a few times (dated a couple women like that, even). But I never saw that as something unachievable by most people, which I know isn't the strict definition of success, but to me, success is when you've managed to do something that a lot of people can't do. A lot of people won't reach it, or won't bother to try to achieve it, but you have. Winning the state spelling bee could meet that criteria. Publishing a book, saving people's lives, etc. But going to a grocery store and buying food, and finding someone willing to have sex with you until you or they get pregnant and then not totally fucking up when raising the kids is not really something that 'most people can't or won't achieve'. People manage it all the time. Sure it's not easy, especially with the way health care, housing, education, and daycare costs have skyrocketed and made it much more difficult and stressful, but most people who want to do it still somehow manage it. I guess I just have a different perception on what it means to be successful. I'm pretty much just arguing semantics, really, and I'm sorry for that. I'm just surprised that's considered to be successful.

jjcm 10y ago

Becoming moderately good at two things is how I ended up where I am. Before I went to college I did freelance graphic design. In college I ended up studying computer science, simply because that's what my brother majored in. The two combined meant I was getting job offers in my sophomore year. I can't stress just how much it helps when I'm applying for jobs - not only do I have a wider selection (design and programming jobs), but it also opens up niche jobs which are typically in high demand and low supply (prototyper, my current role). Scott's advice here is spot on and is the first thing I recommend to people when they're looking to prepare to enter the workforce.

superplussed 10y ago
I have a similar skill set combining graphic design and programming, but I find those niche jobs of prototyping to be in very short demand, where are you seeing the opposite? The lack of opportunity to flex my creative muscles actually drives me to create my own startups because it's the only type of project where I feel I can utilize all of my strengths instead of being pigeonholed into a developer role.

xiaoma 10y ago

I saw this same advice on Marc Andresen's blog a long time ago: http://pmarchive.com/guide_to_career_planning_part2.html http://pmarchive.com/guide_to_career_planning_part2.html One third strategy I've seen but unfortunately don't quite have the temperament for is: 3. Become the best at one very specific thing. Unlike becoming the best at something hugely popular, there's a lot less competition once you niche down far enough. I've seen people do this with as youtuber analysts of a specific video game, as creators of art using an unusual medium, as bloggers with freemium content focused on a specific niche and with marketers who specialize in both an acquisition channel and an industry. What's appealing about this is that after becoming #1 in a niche, it's often possible to use the success there to springboard into a larger territory, learn new skills and then enter either path #1 or path #2 with a significant advantage.

sjg007 10y ago
This can explain the C level of a company. Typically, these people are good speakers and good at something else: finance, sales, technology ... also SV typically has looked down on MBAs but that is probably a mistake. They're good at networking, speaking and probably have some other technical skills.

geebee 10y ago

This is great advice, but you have to be more entrepreneurial, or at least have more personal initiative, to take option 2, especially in high tech. Here's the problem - if you apply at a company that follows the standard "technical interview", you will be tested on one thing only - your coding ability at a whiteboard. Here's what can happen. An employee at the 89%ile in writing, speaking, sales, and coding would be very valuable and rare.. However, this employee must interview with 5 people, all of whom filter out anyone who doesn't land in the top 10%ile. Companies rarely create jobs for this sort of multifaceted worker who is top 25% in many areas but not quite top 10% in any of them. Truth is, they don't really understand what this is or why it would be valuable. A software developer might benefit tremendously from expertise in these other fields, but if you don't do really well in the whiteboard exercise, you're out. As a result, software interviews tend to filter out people who can present, write, or sell well. Those workers are still out there, of course, but I think companies reduce the probability that a developer will have these skills through the interview process - and I'm not sure they increase their probability of finding good developers appreciably, even when measured purely by coding skill. Of course, every inefficiency contains an opportunity. My advice to companies is to look for paths to identify and hire people who can do more than one thing. My advice to individuals is this - first, get as good at the coding tests as you possibly can. But probably better is to try to enter a company through a path that doesn't go through software engineering. Trust me, they will fail you out if you can't find all permutations of a set at the whiteboard, even if you could do this quite easily given 15 minutes and stack overflow (and fully understand what you are doing). So? Learn to code, and let that be your superpower. I know a few people who had a cs/math background and worked as analysts when they started their careers, and have learned to do quantitative analysis, programming, database design, and so forth, and they are rock stars in their fields, highly valued and often invited to speak at conferences. However, when they interview, they don't go through five hours of whiteboard exams - their interviews are actual interviews, they way almost everyone outside tech understands them. Our interviews are more or less indistinguishable from exams (except without the conventions that make exams more fair for the student, such as feedback, consistent grading, a study path, and so forth). Every now and then, when you pop your head out of the tech bubble and talk to people in other fields, you'll see that they actually shudder when they hear about what our interviews are like. Most importantly, they don't get filtered out because they haven't reviewed their textbooks from whatever they studied their second year of college book and prepared for final exams (again). Seriously, anything you can do to leave a field that forces you to do that is worth considering as an option. Like I said, this will take more personal initiative on your part. People don't really advertise these positions, you have to show the value and build your way into it. Another "problem" is that you probably won't get the pay grade for a software developer track right away - but you may build your way up, and when you get there, you'll be unusual, invaluable, and probably have a more enjoyable job.