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I'd like to live in the same world you describe. I work 9-5 and of course, I'd rather be doing whatever I please instead of going to work. But longing for the d

I'd like to live in the same world you describe. I work 9-5 and of course, I'd rather be doing whatever I please instead of going to work. But longing for the destruction of these jobs without a realistic alternative (e.g. basic income is still a pipe dream) is too near-sighted.

artursapek 10y ago
Sorry, I never meant to imply that I hope we do it hastily and without an alternative. It's an economic challenge for the ages, all I'm saying is it's worth taking on.
_nalply 10y ago
Strictly looking at everyone's selfish interests we will head to destruction of jobs which can be automated because it's the companies that decide which people to employ. If a law is passed that people must be employed, automation will happen elsewhere and companies from abroad will be more successful. In other words, it's inevitable.
LordDragonfang 10y ago
Problem is, there isn't a lot of pressure on the political forces to implement any sort of basic income, since there's still a high enough demand for meaningless human labor that it's easier to keep focussing on giving a job. Automation is potentially going to finally push us over the edge where trying to find menial jobs for every worker is no longer a tenable solution. With the current political climate, we won't ever get past it being a "pipe dream" without that being a the case, or at least it being a tangible threat in the near future.
- mixedCase 10y ago
  >Problem is, there isn't a lot of pressure on the political forces to implement any sort of basic income You mean a completely unproven system that most economists believe cannot possibly be funded without increasing spending to unheard of levels and no you don't save enough by cutting the "inefficiencies of the current system" and has a good chance to quickly die due to inflation? Can we please stop bringing up UBI as a silver bullet to all problems in every automation article?
  - logfromblammo 10y ago
    Especially since you can't solve supply-side problems by manipulating demand. Universal Basic Income cannot meet the minimum survival needs of the population as long as it does nothing more than transfer money. The vision most people have when thinking about UBI cannot be realized without some form of command economy separated from the profit-motivated consumer-goods pipeline. If all you do is give poor people cash, their landlords raise rents, their grocers raise prices, and their bus lines raise fares. Any UBI that I'd actually expect to work is nowhere near as simple as just cutting checks.
  - akiselev 10y ago
    > You mean a completely unproven system that most economists believe cannot possibly be funded without increasing spending to unheard of levels and no you don't save enough by cutting the "inefficiencies of the current system" and has a good chance to quickly die due to inflation? I could have sworn I've heard that somewhere... oh wait, it's the same tired argument used against every progressive policy since the New Deal. You'll have to forgive UBI supporters for not taking economists seriously given their track record over the last century, during which the developed world increased spending to "unheard of" levels about a dozen times. The US income tax, which required a Constitutional amendment, is only 104 years old after all. > Can we please stop bringing up UBI as a silver bullet to all problems in every automation article? I don't see anyone seriously claiming that UBI is a silver bullet, just that it's the only bullet we have left against our future robotic overlords.
Chris2048 10y ago
> I'd rather be doing whatever I please instead of going to work Not the same thing, the argument here is for more meaningful jobs, not just fewer bad jobs. If there was less expectation of getting a bad job, there would be more support for getting good jobs.

artursapek 10y ago

Sorry, I never meant to imply that I hope we do it hastily and without an alternative. It's an economic challenge for the ages, all I'm saying is it's worth taking on.

_nalply 10y ago

Strictly looking at everyone's selfish interests we will head to destruction of jobs which can be automated because it's the companies that decide which people to employ. If a law is passed that people must be employed, automation will happen elsewhere and companies from abroad will be more successful. In other words, it's inevitable.

LordDragonfang 10y ago

Problem is, there isn't a lot of pressure on the political forces to implement any sort of basic income, since there's still a high enough demand for meaningless human labor that it's easier to keep focussing on giving a job. Automation is potentially going to finally push us over the edge where trying to find menial jobs for every worker is no longer a tenable solution. With the current political climate, we won't ever get past it being a "pipe dream" without that being a the case, or at least it being a tangible threat in the near future.

mixedCase 10y ago
>Problem is, there isn't a lot of pressure on the political forces to implement any sort of basic income You mean a completely unproven system that most economists believe cannot possibly be funded without increasing spending to unheard of levels and no you don't save enough by cutting the "inefficiencies of the current system" and has a good chance to quickly die due to inflation? Can we please stop bringing up UBI as a silver bullet to all problems in every automation article?
- logfromblammo 10y ago
  Especially since you can't solve supply-side problems by manipulating demand. Universal Basic Income cannot meet the minimum survival needs of the population as long as it does nothing more than transfer money. The vision most people have when thinking about UBI cannot be realized without some form of command economy separated from the profit-motivated consumer-goods pipeline. If all you do is give poor people cash, their landlords raise rents, their grocers raise prices, and their bus lines raise fares. Any UBI that I'd actually expect to work is nowhere near as simple as just cutting checks.
- akiselev 10y ago
  > You mean a completely unproven system that most economists believe cannot possibly be funded without increasing spending to unheard of levels and no you don't save enough by cutting the "inefficiencies of the current system" and has a good chance to quickly die due to inflation? I could have sworn I've heard that somewhere... oh wait, it's the same tired argument used against every progressive policy since the New Deal. You'll have to forgive UBI supporters for not taking economists seriously given their track record over the last century, during which the developed world increased spending to "unheard of" levels about a dozen times. The US income tax, which required a Constitutional amendment, is only 104 years old after all. > Can we please stop bringing up UBI as a silver bullet to all problems in every automation article? I don't see anyone seriously claiming that UBI is a silver bullet, just that it's the only bullet we have left against our future robotic overlords.

Chris2048 10y ago

> I'd rather be doing whatever I please instead of going to work Not the same thing, the argument here is for more meaningful jobs, not just fewer bad jobs. If there was less expectation of getting a bad job, there would be more support for getting good jobs.