59 ms·

This sounds like you're counting the 2h toward the length of the day? I thought one generally doesn't include lunch in the day length. So an 8 hour 'day' with

This sounds like you're counting the 2h toward the length of the day? I thought one generally doesn't include lunch in the day length. So an 8 hour 'day' with an hour lunch is 8-5, 8 hours working + 1 hour off-time. When they say "6 hours" in this article, they're excluding lunch.

cmdrfred 10y ago
I think it depends on the trade. I'm in the process of leaving a IT job that forces you to take a unpaid "lunch" but expects you to be available to them during that time. Its a way to cheat and fill the schedule in some cases.
- knz 10y ago
  > a IT job that forces you to take a unpaid "lunch" but expects you to be available to them during that time. That's up there with "You can't work remotely but we expect you to VPN in after hours to fix any issues".
  - sokoloff 10y ago
    The latter is perfectly reasonable in some (many?) circumstances. Break-fix work needing to be done on-call/24x7 while requiring in-office presence for design and new feature development (a fundamentally different type of work, typically requiring a higher level of collaboration) seems perfectly reasonable to me.
    - knz 10y ago
      > The latter is perfectly reasonable in some (many?) circumstances. I live in a northern climate and when it snows can either spend 1 hour stuck in traffic or just work from home (and possibly come in after traffic has cleared). My previous employer was adamant about being in the building from 0830 to 1700 even if it was a blizzard. My current employer lets the employees manage whether they need to come in or not (any day not just during bad weather). I'm sure you can guess which one has happier and more productive employees!
      - sokoloff 10y ago
        I'm facing a Nor'easter, 12+" of snow, etc, here tomorrow and will be working from home for the day. To me, that's perfectly natural and anything less flexible would be insanity/inanity. The key there is (almost) no one will be in the office because it's a synchronized event. OTOH, if everyone worked from home 2x/week at random, it would be chaos trying to plan whiteboard design sessions.
  - alkonaut 10y ago
    That's fine, so long as that translates to a hefty salary, scheduled on/off-call weeks plus a good (8w plus) paid holiday.
    - knz 10y ago
      8 weeks?! I assume you are not on the North American continent!
      - alkonaut 10y ago
        Sweden. 5w is legal min, 6w is typical for large corporations or public employers. Sometimes more if you are older. If you have any kind of agreement on "unpaid OT" you typically have 1 more (so 6 or 7). Being on call would mean I'd want ar least another one or two.
- alkonaut 10y ago
  Either I'm working and then I'm paid and available. Or I'm not working e.g on lunch in which case I might be available if it's urgent. If I do tend to something on my lunch (being nice) then obviously I'm working again - so I'll just go home early instead. Obviously I'm only available on lunch if I can, and want to.
alkonaut 10y ago
No, an 8h workday excludes lunch, so typical hours in Sweden are 7-16 or 8-17. If I take a 2h lunch I might work 8-18. There is no such thing as 8-5 that makes no sense in Sweden :) Interestingly, while lunch isn't counted towards the 8h, the workday normally does allow for coffee breaks ("fika") on paid time totaling 15-60minutes depending on what business.
- infinite8s 10y ago
  8-5 (pm is implicit) is the same as 8-17 (American's typically think in terms of 12h cycles).
harmegido 10y ago
Well the saying is typically '9 to 5' which is 8 hours total. Everything varies of course, but I think that's the most common.
- alkonaut 10y ago
  Thats the normal in e.g the U.S but in sweden we say '8 to 5' about the "normal workday" (actually 8-17 of course but you get the point). So in reality the standard work day is 8-12 plus 13-17 so 8h work in 9h total.
  - JamesBarney 10y ago
    The saying is '9 to 5' in the U.S. but ironically the standard work day is 8 to 5(17) just like in Sweden.
    - alkonaut 10y ago
      What status does that give lunch? Is ut unpaid like in sweden so you work 8paid + 1unpaid hours in those 9?
      - JamesBarney 10y ago
        Yep. Just the same.

cmdrfred 10y ago

I think it depends on the trade. I'm in the process of leaving a IT job that forces you to take a unpaid "lunch" but expects you to be available to them during that time. Its a way to cheat and fill the schedule in some cases.

knz 10y ago
> a IT job that forces you to take a unpaid "lunch" but expects you to be available to them during that time. That's up there with "You can't work remotely but we expect you to VPN in after hours to fix any issues".
- sokoloff 10y ago
  The latter is perfectly reasonable in some (many?) circumstances. Break-fix work needing to be done on-call/24x7 while requiring in-office presence for design and new feature development (a fundamentally different type of work, typically requiring a higher level of collaboration) seems perfectly reasonable to me.
  - knz 10y ago
    > The latter is perfectly reasonable in some (many?) circumstances. I live in a northern climate and when it snows can either spend 1 hour stuck in traffic or just work from home (and possibly come in after traffic has cleared). My previous employer was adamant about being in the building from 0830 to 1700 even if it was a blizzard. My current employer lets the employees manage whether they need to come in or not (any day not just during bad weather). I'm sure you can guess which one has happier and more productive employees!
    - sokoloff 10y ago
      I'm facing a Nor'easter, 12+" of snow, etc, here tomorrow and will be working from home for the day. To me, that's perfectly natural and anything less flexible would be insanity/inanity. The key there is (almost) no one will be in the office because it's a synchronized event. OTOH, if everyone worked from home 2x/week at random, it would be chaos trying to plan whiteboard design sessions.
- alkonaut 10y ago
  That's fine, so long as that translates to a hefty salary, scheduled on/off-call weeks plus a good (8w plus) paid holiday.
  - knz 10y ago
    8 weeks?! I assume you are not on the North American continent!
    - alkonaut 10y ago
      Sweden. 5w is legal min, 6w is typical for large corporations or public employers. Sometimes more if you are older. If you have any kind of agreement on "unpaid OT" you typically have 1 more (so 6 or 7). Being on call would mean I'd want ar least another one or two.
alkonaut 10y ago
Either I'm working and then I'm paid and available. Or I'm not working e.g on lunch in which case I might be available if it's urgent. If I do tend to something on my lunch (being nice) then obviously I'm working again - so I'll just go home early instead. Obviously I'm only available on lunch if I can, and want to.

alkonaut 10y ago

No, an 8h workday excludes lunch, so typical hours in Sweden are 7-16 or 8-17. If I take a 2h lunch I might work 8-18. There is no such thing as 8-5 that makes no sense in Sweden :) Interestingly, while lunch isn't counted towards the 8h, the workday normally does allow for coffee breaks ("fika") on paid time totaling 15-60minutes depending on what business.

infinite8s 10y ago
8-5 (pm is implicit) is the same as 8-17 (American's typically think in terms of 12h cycles).

harmegido 10y ago

Well the saying is typically '9 to 5' which is 8 hours total. Everything varies of course, but I think that's the most common.

alkonaut 10y ago
Thats the normal in e.g the U.S but in sweden we say '8 to 5' about the "normal workday" (actually 8-17 of course but you get the point). So in reality the standard work day is 8-12 plus 13-17 so 8h work in 9h total.
- JamesBarney 10y ago
  The saying is '9 to 5' in the U.S. but ironically the standard work day is 8 to 5(17) just like in Sweden.
  - alkonaut 10y ago
    What status does that give lunch? Is ut unpaid like in sweden so you work 8paid + 1unpaid hours in those 9?
    - JamesBarney 10y ago
      Yep. Just the same.