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> Our guy shot down a passenger flight, murdering 290 human beings, we gave him a medal but we then paid USD$213,000 in blood money per passenger to Iran withou

by wtbob 10y ago

> Our guy shot down a passenger flight, murdering 290 human beings, we gave him a medal but we then paid USD$213,000 in blood money per passenger to Iran without ever admitting fault. Vincennes believed it was shooting down an attacking Iranian fighter, not a passenger jet. It wasn't murder; it was an accident (due to faulty electronic data). We didn't give the skipper a medal for shooting down the plane; we gave him an end-of-tour award. And I don't know what the big deal with paying weregild is: that's what you do. Has Russia paid anything to the families of the Malaysian airliner shoot-down?

coldcode 10y ago
No, but horrible things down by other people doesn't really have anything to do with stuff we do. We can't control other countries (well without forcing things) but we can and should control what we do.
mikeash 10y ago
Your comment would be far stronger without that Russia bit at the end. You raise excellent points, but the descent into whataboutism overshadows them.
Mikeb85 10y ago
> Has Russia paid anything to the families of the Malaysian airliner shoot-down? If you want to compare situations, the Malaysian airliner flew over an active warzone, along the same path as Ukrainian military planes that were targeting the rebels. Surely you can see the situations aren't quite the same.
dhimes 10y ago
You are correct on Vincennes. And it was reported. It was talked about. We (Americans) were horrified and apologetic- and angry with our military (at least on the college campus).
kwhitefoot 10y ago
The aircraft was surely within visual range. If someone had gone out to look with a telescope perhaps the disaster could have been avoided.
cyberferret 10y ago
> Vincennes believed it was shooting down an attacking Iranian fighter This was due to gross incompetence/negligence. This was a Ticonderoga class frigate equipped with the (then state of the art) Aegis weapons system [1] - capable of knocking down an Exocet missile out of the sky with a hose of lead. From the linked article: "The Aegis system was involved in a disaster in which USS Vincennes shot down Iran Air Flight 655 in 1988 resulting in 290 civilian deaths. It was determined by a formal military investigation[17] that the Aegis system was completely operational and did not have any maintenance problems. The investigation ruled that if the commanding officer had relied on the complete tactical data displayed by the Aegis system the engagement might never have occurred. Additionally, psychological effects of the crew subconsciously manipulating the data to accord with a predefined scenario greatly contributed to the false identification." Aside from the fact that the captain of the Vincennes was in Iranian waters (without authorisation - and which the US Navy lied about on formal reports), plus the reports of his rising aggression from colleagues working with him, should push this into a military disciplinary matter, along with demotion or discharge. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aegis_Combat_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aegis_Combat_System

by wtbob 10y ago

coldcode 10y ago

No, but horrible things down by other people doesn't really have anything to do with stuff we do. We can't control other countries (well without forcing things) but we can and should control what we do.

mikeash 10y ago

Your comment would be far stronger without that Russia bit at the end. You raise excellent points, but the descent into whataboutism overshadows them.

Mikeb85 10y ago

> Has Russia paid anything to the families of the Malaysian airliner shoot-down? If you want to compare situations, the Malaysian airliner flew over an active warzone, along the same path as Ukrainian military planes that were targeting the rebels. Surely you can see the situations aren't quite the same.

dhimes 10y ago

You are correct on Vincennes. And it was reported. It was talked about. We (Americans) were horrified and apologetic- and angry with our military (at least on the college campus).

kwhitefoot 10y ago

The aircraft was surely within visual range. If someone had gone out to look with a telescope perhaps the disaster could have been avoided.

cyberferret 10y ago

> Vincennes believed it was shooting down an attacking Iranian fighter This was due to gross incompetence/negligence. This was a Ticonderoga class frigate equipped with the (then state of the art) Aegis weapons system [1] - capable of knocking down an Exocet missile out of the sky with a hose of lead. From the linked article: "The Aegis system was involved in a disaster in which USS Vincennes shot down Iran Air Flight 655 in 1988 resulting in 290 civilian deaths. It was determined by a formal military investigation[17] that the Aegis system was completely operational and did not have any maintenance problems. The investigation ruled that if the commanding officer had relied on the complete tactical data displayed by the Aegis system the engagement might never have occurred. Additionally, psychological effects of the crew subconsciously manipulating the data to accord with a predefined scenario greatly contributed to the false identification." Aside from the fact that the captain of the Vincennes was in Iranian waters (without authorisation - and which the US Navy lied about on formal reports), plus the reports of his rising aggression from colleagues working with him, should push this into a military disciplinary matter, along with demotion or discharge. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aegis_Combat_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aegis_Combat_System