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He's not making a humble, leftish point about our moral failures in foreign policy! He was shrugging off the use of murder as a political tool. America may be

by dcposch 10y ago

He's not making a humble, leftish point about our moral failures in foreign policy! He was shrugging off the use of murder as a political tool. America may be in a bad place right now, and we've done a lot of awful things in other people's countries. But unlike Russia, we are not at a point where our leaders simply "disappear" domestic political opponents and journalists. Things can get a lot worse. Trump was expressing admiration for Putin. The reporter incredulously reminded him that Putin has personally had his opponents killed (Litvenenko, etc). Trump basically said "whatever, nbd, we do bad stuff too". I predict ugly surprises.

Ntrails 10y ago
> He's not making a humble, leftish point about our moral failures in foreign policy! How is that point leftish in any way? The left are not defined by the idea that there is a moral good and a moral bad, and they want the moral good. Left good Right bad is one of the most infuriating assertions to see casually chucked into a sentence. You're right, of course, that he wasn't trying to suggest that America should pay for it's sins or change it's attitude/foreign policy. I happily acknowledge that you think it's worse to murder high profile people in your own country compared to, say, exploding nobodies in a foreign one. I'll at least argue that the president being honest about them both being murder is pretty refreshing
- dcposch 10y ago
  > Left good Right bad is one of the most infuriating assertions to see casually chucked into a sentence. i didnt say that. it just happens that in American politics, admitting that our foreign policy has been amoral is something done almost exclusively by the left. writers like noam chomsky, glenn greenwald, jeremy scahill. politicians like tulsi gabbard. etc. that's why i called it a "leftish point" politicians on the right, even when they favor less foreign intervention, tend to justify it in terms of cost savings, constitutional limits, and smaller government. rand paul, for example.
anon2264 10y ago
Surely things can get worse, but if the dead could speak, Gary Webb and Michael Hastings would want to have a word with you.
aedron 10y ago
> we are not at a point where our leaders simply "disappear" domestic political opponents and journalists Nice how you snuck "domestic" in there, as if that makes it so much better.
Mikeb85 10y ago
> He's not making a humble, leftish point about our moral failures in foreign policy! Morality doesn't exist along the left-right spectrum. Also, this is simply your perception. > But unlike Russia, we are not at a point where our leaders simply "disappear" domestic political opponents and journalists. No, they magically commit suicide, get killed in a car crash, or get murdered in a botched robbery.
- seppin 10y ago
  > No, they magically commit suicide, get killed in a car crash, or get murdered in a botched robbery. In the west, name one.
  - Mikeb85 10y ago
    Google is your friend. Many US politicians (a surprising number really) have been killed. Of course, most have 'explanations' that are officially accidents. The government isn't going to admit to political assassinations, so for you to ask for 'proof' is an impossible task. Then again, there's 'explanations' for most deaths in Russia too. The real question is whether you believe that the US government only tells the truth and only the Russian one lies. Of course, we know the US government lies about a lot, that's how we know about CIA actions to overthrow governments, the Iran-Contra affair, etc... We know the US government engages in assassinations abroad, whether it's a covert action or via drone. To think that none of the politicians who are killed in plane crashes, gym accidents, car accidents or have heart attacks were expedited along is naïve.
    - seppin 10y ago
      > so for you to ask for 'proof' is an impossible task lol you are a excellent troll. "My unverifiable claims are just as true as yours are." No, there is a Russian opposition leader in a coma right now and you can't point to a single western journalist or politician suffering the same fate. > We know the US government engages in assassinations abroad, whether it's a covert action or via drone. Whataboutism, changing the subject, etc. I hope you are entertaining yourself b/c there is no other value to this thread.

by dcposch 10y ago

Ntrails 10y ago

> He's not making a humble, leftish point about our moral failures in foreign policy! How is that point leftish in any way? The left are not defined by the idea that there is a moral good and a moral bad, and they want the moral good. Left good Right bad is one of the most infuriating assertions to see casually chucked into a sentence. You're right, of course, that he wasn't trying to suggest that America should pay for it's sins or change it's attitude/foreign policy. I happily acknowledge that you think it's worse to murder high profile people in your own country compared to, say, exploding nobodies in a foreign one. I'll at least argue that the president being honest about them both being murder is pretty refreshing

dcposch 10y ago
> Left good Right bad is one of the most infuriating assertions to see casually chucked into a sentence. i didnt say that. it just happens that in American politics, admitting that our foreign policy has been amoral is something done almost exclusively by the left. writers like noam chomsky, glenn greenwald, jeremy scahill. politicians like tulsi gabbard. etc. that's why i called it a "leftish point" politicians on the right, even when they favor less foreign intervention, tend to justify it in terms of cost savings, constitutional limits, and smaller government. rand paul, for example.

anon2264 10y ago

Surely things can get worse, but if the dead could speak, Gary Webb and Michael Hastings would want to have a word with you.

aedron 10y ago

> we are not at a point where our leaders simply "disappear" domestic political opponents and journalists Nice how you snuck "domestic" in there, as if that makes it so much better.

Mikeb85 10y ago

> He's not making a humble, leftish point about our moral failures in foreign policy! Morality doesn't exist along the left-right spectrum. Also, this is simply your perception. > But unlike Russia, we are not at a point where our leaders simply "disappear" domestic political opponents and journalists. No, they magically commit suicide, get killed in a car crash, or get murdered in a botched robbery.

seppin 10y ago
> No, they magically commit suicide, get killed in a car crash, or get murdered in a botched robbery. In the west, name one.
- Mikeb85 10y ago
  Google is your friend. Many US politicians (a surprising number really) have been killed. Of course, most have 'explanations' that are officially accidents. The government isn't going to admit to political assassinations, so for you to ask for 'proof' is an impossible task. Then again, there's 'explanations' for most deaths in Russia too. The real question is whether you believe that the US government only tells the truth and only the Russian one lies. Of course, we know the US government lies about a lot, that's how we know about CIA actions to overthrow governments, the Iran-Contra affair, etc... We know the US government engages in assassinations abroad, whether it's a covert action or via drone. To think that none of the politicians who are killed in plane crashes, gym accidents, car accidents or have heart attacks were expedited along is naïve.
  - seppin 10y ago
    > so for you to ask for 'proof' is an impossible task lol you are a excellent troll. "My unverifiable claims are just as true as yours are." No, there is a Russian opposition leader in a coma right now and you can't point to a single western journalist or politician suffering the same fate. > We know the US government engages in assassinations abroad, whether it's a covert action or via drone. Whataboutism, changing the subject, etc. I hope you are entertaining yourself b/c there is no other value to this thread.