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I correspond with someone from India that is heavily into marketing this stuff (he does legitimate things as well, and is one of the most knowledgable paid Face

I correspond with someone from India that is heavily into marketing this stuff (he does legitimate things as well, and is one of the most knowledgable paid Facebook advertising specialists on earth, which is how I came to know him). He has been pushing it for years and the Indian government has never come close to bothering either him or the people that actually own the services that pay him for each phone call his advertising generates. It's not just the Indian government that is lackadaisical about this either. He is able to run ads for tech these support scams through Facebook and get ROI above 500%. Facebook eventually stops his ads, then he buys another ad account. In fact, he claims a single aged Facebook account is worth roughly $10,000 to him (aged accounts have an easier time getting ads through). He spends well into the six figures each year on these types of ads through Facebook alone. Ad platforms share some of the blame for the proliferation of these scams because they simply do not police their platforms well - the tactics he uses to get these ads through their review process are truly elementary but are good enough to foil a company full of PhD's. Clearly they aren't trying very hard.

i336_ 10y ago
Everything you just wrote is extremely interesting to me. > he ... is one of the most knowledgable paid Facebook advertising specialists on earth, which is how I came to know him > ... > the tactics he uses to get these ads through their review process are truly elementary I'm not a marketer or advertiser myself, but I'm always interested in learning more about these aspects of the Facebook "scene" just to better mentally map the state of things. Sounds like a lot (if not most) of the things this person has learned are the kind that only keep working if you're quiet about them, but I'm still very curious to hear what could be shared.
- downandout 10y ago
  Most rogue ads rely on "cloaking" which means showing an acceptable landing page to the ad network reviewers, while showing the bad landing page to everyone else. The LP's are cloaked for all visitors before they are approved and go live, since only the ad network would know the URL. The IP blocks that access these URL's during this time are recorded and permanently cloaked. Most cloakers also cloak all known data center and commercial IP blocks. Facebook sometimes checks LP's from residential and mobile IPs, and often that is how they catch rogue ads, but this isn't often done. Rogue advertisers also setup honeypot URL's, for example by sharing them on closed Facebook groups and adding any IP block that accesses them to the cloaking list. Cloaking isn't perfect, but for those marketers with enough IP data, it is effective enough to make these kinds of campaigns enormously profitable and the occasional loss of accounts only a minor inconvenience.
  - i336_ 10y ago
    Wow. That was a bit of an education. Thanks for the information.
  - wcunning 10y ago
    I've never heard of this, and yet I've read a number of think-pieces that have been on the front page lambasting the ad networks for letting sketchy ads through. If this is only the trivial end of hiding from the network's policing strategies, it seems like they're a lot less culpable than I thought. Do you have links to more information on the other tactics?
    - downandout 10y ago
      You can Google "PPC cloaking" and get quite a few interesting results. There are also professional cloaking services that maintain large IP datasets. The two most popular of those are called Just Cloak It [1], and, ironically, FraudBuster [2]. Also if you're looking in general for information on this and other black/grey hat marketing techniques, Black Hat World [3] is a great place to start. [1] http://justcloakit.com/ http://justcloakit.com/ [2] http://fraudbuster.im http://fraudbuster.im [3] http://blackhatworld.com http://blackhatworld.com
    - ams6110 10y ago
      Come on, we're talking about Facebook? They could easily "sample" the actual ads that are displaying for users on their computers, and compare them to the ones that were approved.
  - yumaikas 10y ago
    Where did you learn about this kind of stuff? I'd be interested in a larger writeup.
    - downandout 10y ago
      I'd start at http://blackhatworld.com http://blackhatworld.com . There is alot of crap there, but also a world of valuable knowledge of this and other internet marketing techniques.
ams6110 10y ago
> the tactics he uses to get these ads through their review process are truly elementary but are good enough to foil a company full of PhD's I'm reminded of the Upton Sinclair quote, It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!
kriro 10y ago
I'd be weary of this person you are describing, depending how you got to know him. It reminds me a bit of certain poker coaches back in the day. You basically only have his word. I'd assume the 10k figure that accounts are worth and the 500% are vastly exaggerated. If it works so well, why is he sharing this with you? Let me guess, because he enjoys mentoring and is tired of doing the same profitable things over and over? He's probably charging a fee for these invaluable services?
- downandout 10y ago
  We share technical and strategic internet marketing information/software, and info about what is and isn't currently working marketing-wise. The stuff about the specific campaigns he's running came up only after more than a year of such exchanges. Also he isn't giving me his landing pages, his advertiser contact info, etc., and he knows I'd never touch something as legally questionable as a tech support scam anyway. But of course at some point when talking to others, after long enough, you talk about what you are working on. I've never paid or been asked for a dime. So your assumptions are incorrect.
- skinnymuch 10y ago
  They could most certainly be exaggerations in his case but the claims aren't that bad for experienced marketers. 500% ROI is a bit high for me but I wouldn't bat an eye if he had said half that. People share stuff in the internet marketing industry/this niche, just like other industries. It's how things work.
brazzledazzle 10y ago
My gut instinct is to have government hold these advertising platforms accountable for fighting this more effectively but I know that's a total mess waiting to happen because how do you measure the effectiveness of mitigation? I guess one option would be allowing merchants to recoup charge backs from the ad platforms but connecting the charge backs with the individual ads probably wouldn't be cost effective at all.
- SomeCallMeTim 10y ago
  Maybe some of the active "Fake News" filtering will also (intentionally or incidentally) reduce these incidents? Would be nice.

i336_ 10y ago

Everything you just wrote is extremely interesting to me. > he ... is one of the most knowledgable paid Facebook advertising specialists on earth, which is how I came to know him > ... > the tactics he uses to get these ads through their review process are truly elementary I'm not a marketer or advertiser myself, but I'm always interested in learning more about these aspects of the Facebook "scene" just to better mentally map the state of things. Sounds like a lot (if not most) of the things this person has learned are the kind that only keep working if you're quiet about them, but I'm still very curious to hear what could be shared.

downandout 10y ago
Most rogue ads rely on "cloaking" which means showing an acceptable landing page to the ad network reviewers, while showing the bad landing page to everyone else. The LP's are cloaked for all visitors before they are approved and go live, since only the ad network would know the URL. The IP blocks that access these URL's during this time are recorded and permanently cloaked. Most cloakers also cloak all known data center and commercial IP blocks. Facebook sometimes checks LP's from residential and mobile IPs, and often that is how they catch rogue ads, but this isn't often done. Rogue advertisers also setup honeypot URL's, for example by sharing them on closed Facebook groups and adding any IP block that accesses them to the cloaking list. Cloaking isn't perfect, but for those marketers with enough IP data, it is effective enough to make these kinds of campaigns enormously profitable and the occasional loss of accounts only a minor inconvenience.
- i336_ 10y ago
  Wow. That was a bit of an education. Thanks for the information.
- wcunning 10y ago
  I've never heard of this, and yet I've read a number of think-pieces that have been on the front page lambasting the ad networks for letting sketchy ads through. If this is only the trivial end of hiding from the network's policing strategies, it seems like they're a lot less culpable than I thought. Do you have links to more information on the other tactics?
  - downandout 10y ago
    You can Google "PPC cloaking" and get quite a few interesting results. There are also professional cloaking services that maintain large IP datasets. The two most popular of those are called Just Cloak It [1], and, ironically, FraudBuster [2]. Also if you're looking in general for information on this and other black/grey hat marketing techniques, Black Hat World [3] is a great place to start. [1] http://justcloakit.com/ http://justcloakit.com/ [2] http://fraudbuster.im http://fraudbuster.im [3] http://blackhatworld.com http://blackhatworld.com
  - ams6110 10y ago
    Come on, we're talking about Facebook? They could easily "sample" the actual ads that are displaying for users on their computers, and compare them to the ones that were approved.
- yumaikas 10y ago
  Where did you learn about this kind of stuff? I'd be interested in a larger writeup.
  - downandout 10y ago
    I'd start at http://blackhatworld.com http://blackhatworld.com . There is alot of crap there, but also a world of valuable knowledge of this and other internet marketing techniques.

ams6110 10y ago

> the tactics he uses to get these ads through their review process are truly elementary but are good enough to foil a company full of PhD's I'm reminded of the Upton Sinclair quote, It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!

kriro 10y ago

I'd be weary of this person you are describing, depending how you got to know him. It reminds me a bit of certain poker coaches back in the day. You basically only have his word. I'd assume the 10k figure that accounts are worth and the 500% are vastly exaggerated. If it works so well, why is he sharing this with you? Let me guess, because he enjoys mentoring and is tired of doing the same profitable things over and over? He's probably charging a fee for these invaluable services?

downandout 10y ago
We share technical and strategic internet marketing information/software, and info about what is and isn't currently working marketing-wise. The stuff about the specific campaigns he's running came up only after more than a year of such exchanges. Also he isn't giving me his landing pages, his advertiser contact info, etc., and he knows I'd never touch something as legally questionable as a tech support scam anyway. But of course at some point when talking to others, after long enough, you talk about what you are working on. I've never paid or been asked for a dime. So your assumptions are incorrect.
skinnymuch 10y ago
They could most certainly be exaggerations in his case but the claims aren't that bad for experienced marketers. 500% ROI is a bit high for me but I wouldn't bat an eye if he had said half that. People share stuff in the internet marketing industry/this niche, just like other industries. It's how things work.

brazzledazzle 10y ago

My gut instinct is to have government hold these advertising platforms accountable for fighting this more effectively but I know that's a total mess waiting to happen because how do you measure the effectiveness of mitigation? I guess one option would be allowing merchants to recoup charge backs from the ad platforms but connecting the charge backs with the individual ads probably wouldn't be cost effective at all.

SomeCallMeTim 10y ago
Maybe some of the active "Fake News" filtering will also (intentionally or incidentally) reduce these incidents? Would be nice.