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If I self-host (as painful as that is), what happens when my internet goes down randomly (or my computer has to reboot, or whatever)? Should all incoming emails

If I self-host (as painful as that is), what happens when my internet goes down randomly (or my computer has to reboot, or whatever)? Should all incoming emails really be dropped with an‌ "oops, try again later" message to the sender? I sure as hell wouldn't want that. There are lots of hidden costs to self-hosting...

holri 10y ago
"oops, try again later" is not what is happening when your mail server reboots. Email uses asynchronous protocols.
- wfunction 10y ago
  > "oops, try again later" is not what is happening when your mail server reboots. Email uses asynchronous protocols. Wha...? How do you think my server receives emails while it's rebooting?
  - metafunctor 10y ago
    The sending server will automatically try to deliver the email again for a few days. If the receiving server is occasionally down, there will be a delay, but if it's not down for very long (many days) the email will eventually be delivered.
bigbugbag 10y ago
nobody says you have to self-host on your personal pc using your home connection.
- wfunction 10y ago
  I thought that was the point, since you didn't trust other people not to be mining your data? If it's another person's machine then they could just read your emails...
  - the_common_man 10y ago
    No, you self-host because you retain the ownership and control of your data. You choose service providers whose main business is not to snoop your data. For example, if you choose a server from amazon ec2 or linode or your local vps provider, they are not going to snoop your data because they are in the business of selling servers and not mining all your servers.
    - wfunction 10y ago
      Okay, different question: any reason to believe the government isn't making them share dumps of their servers behind your back? I thought paranoia about the government reading your emails was the other huge reason to want this sort of thing in the first place.
      - Outpox 10y ago
        If you're that worried then you can encrypt your server or data folder if needed.
        wfunction 10y ago
        What's the point though? Wouldn't the key need to be on the server if I encrypt it? Otherwise how can my mail server even work?
the_common_man 10y ago
self-hosting is generally done on cloud vps providers (like ec2, digital ocean). Also, email is asynchronous. Email has a lot of retry logic built into it. You seriously don't think it behaves you think it does, do you? Imagine the amount of emails dropped :-)
- wfunction 10y ago
  > Email has a lot of retry logic built into it. You seriously don't think it behaves you think it does, do you? Imagine the amount of emails dropped :-) Retries on the order of a few minutes, maybe. I think I've very rarely seen maybe a handful of retries, one a day, in certain cases (thanks to mailer-daemon notifications from Gmail). I don't imagine servers keep retrying for days on end beyond that (maybe internet outage was a poor example here though). Am I wrong? How long do retries go on for? Like imagine if you were on a trip when your server crashed. Now you miss emails for two weeks and you imagine that when you reboot it after coming back the senders will keep retrying? Is that really how it works? And if it does, would you really want to have that level of availability? You never have to worry about that kind of thing with a service provider, but as soon as you maintain your own server you have to constantly monitor it and be able to fix it ASAP.
  - scalaris373 10y ago
    I have been self-hosting my email for a few years now. (I use Zimbra BTW) Whenever the server goes down for whatever reason, the sending SMTP will retry. Each server has their own configuration, and can be changed by the adminsitrator, but it's usually a few days. As an example, on their default configurations, Exim will retry every 24h, and give up after a week. IIS will retry every 2 hours and give up after 2 days.

holri 10y ago

"oops, try again later" is not what is happening when your mail server reboots. Email uses asynchronous protocols.

wfunction 10y ago
> "oops, try again later" is not what is happening when your mail server reboots. Email uses asynchronous protocols. Wha...? How do you think my server receives emails while it's rebooting?
- metafunctor 10y ago
  The sending server will automatically try to deliver the email again for a few days. If the receiving server is occasionally down, there will be a delay, but if it's not down for very long (many days) the email will eventually be delivered.

bigbugbag 10y ago

nobody says you have to self-host on your personal pc using your home connection.

wfunction 10y ago
I thought that was the point, since you didn't trust other people not to be mining your data? If it's another person's machine then they could just read your emails...
- the_common_man 10y ago
  No, you self-host because you retain the ownership and control of your data. You choose service providers whose main business is not to snoop your data. For example, if you choose a server from amazon ec2 or linode or your local vps provider, they are not going to snoop your data because they are in the business of selling servers and not mining all your servers.
  - wfunction 10y ago
    Okay, different question: any reason to believe the government isn't making them share dumps of their servers behind your back? I thought paranoia about the government reading your emails was the other huge reason to want this sort of thing in the first place.
    - Outpox 10y ago
      If you're that worried then you can encrypt your server or data folder if needed.
      - wfunction 10y ago
        What's the point though? Wouldn't the key need to be on the server if I encrypt it? Otherwise how can my mail server even work?

the_common_man 10y ago

self-hosting is generally done on cloud vps providers (like ec2, digital ocean). Also, email is asynchronous. Email has a lot of retry logic built into it. You seriously don't think it behaves you think it does, do you? Imagine the amount of emails dropped :-)

wfunction 10y ago
> Email has a lot of retry logic built into it. You seriously don't think it behaves you think it does, do you? Imagine the amount of emails dropped :-) Retries on the order of a few minutes, maybe. I think I've very rarely seen maybe a handful of retries, one a day, in certain cases (thanks to mailer-daemon notifications from Gmail). I don't imagine servers keep retrying for days on end beyond that (maybe internet outage was a poor example here though). Am I wrong? How long do retries go on for? Like imagine if you were on a trip when your server crashed. Now you miss emails for two weeks and you imagine that when you reboot it after coming back the senders will keep retrying? Is that really how it works? And if it does, would you really want to have that level of availability? You never have to worry about that kind of thing with a service provider, but as soon as you maintain your own server you have to constantly monitor it and be able to fix it ASAP.
- scalaris373 10y ago
  I have been self-hosting my email for a few years now. (I use Zimbra BTW) Whenever the server goes down for whatever reason, the sending SMTP will retry. Each server has their own configuration, and can be changed by the adminsitrator, but it's usually a few days. As an example, on their default configurations, Exim will retry every 24h, and give up after a week. IIS will retry every 2 hours and give up after 2 days.