5 ms·

i'm disappointed that hardly any members of the media or Democratic party establishment talk about Obama's expansion of the drone program. we have a long list

by dcposch 10y ago

i'm disappointed that hardly any members of the media or Democratic party establishment talk about Obama's expansion of the drone program. we have a long list of names. the executive branch of our government curates the list unilaterally and in secret. then, we cross names off the list by killing them. sometimes, they're American citizens. often, they're in countries we're at peace or even allied with. there are children in Yemen right now who are afraid of blue skies. drones fly high enough to be invisible to the naked eye; most strikes are carried out in clear weather. i'm near certain that history will judge us harshly. in any case, it's Trump's drone program now. i hope the technologists who created this infrastructure think about that when they try to sleep.

nharada 10y ago
"I just like solving interesting problems, I don't care about politics. And besides, if I don't do it someone else will anyway"
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- striking 10y ago
  See, that quote felt like it applied to me... until we started talking about choosing whether someone lives or dies. The thought becomes really scary when taken to its logical conclusion. After mulling it over a bit, I don't think I could work as a defense contractor.
  - rangibaby 10y ago
    "I would prefer to have invented a machine that people could use and that would help farmers with their work - for example a lawnmower." - Mikhail Kalashnikov "If only I had known, I should have become a watchmaker." - Albert Einstein
kurttheviking 10y ago
> i'm disappointed that i haven't seen a single member of the media or Democratic party establishments talk about Obama's expansion of the drone program. I have been hearing and reading about the expansion of Obama's drone program for years in "the media". Some quick Googling shows several examples. - http://www.npr.org/2013/04/28/179597464/leading-senate-democrat-has-concerns-with-u-s-drones http://www.npr.org/2013/04/28/179597464/leading-senate-democ... - http://www.npr.org/2012/06/20/155389081/are-drones-obamas-legacy-in-war-on-terrorism http://www.npr.org/2012/06/20/155389081/are-drones-obamas-le... - http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/23/politics/obama-drone-warren-weinstein-hostages/ http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/23/politics/obama-drone-warren-we... - https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/obamas-drone-war-is-a-shameful-part-of-his-legacy/2016/05/05/a727eea8-12ea-11e6-8967-7ac733c56f12_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/obamas-drone-war-is-... - http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2016/01/12/reflecting-on-obamas-presidency/obamas-embrace-of-drone-strikes-will-be-a-lasting-legacy http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2016/01/12/reflecting-o... One can argue that consumers of media have chosen to ignore or accept these stories, but I think it's a little disingenuous to suggest the issues aren't being raised at all.
- proee 10y ago
  Just because you posted a few example articles, does not negate the fact that the media fails to provide front-page coverage of such an important issue.
  - kurttheviking 10y ago
    During the end of Preisdent Obama's first term and into the start of the second term there was a series of uproars about illegal drone strikes in Pakistan[1]. This was covered on the front page of the papers I see (WSJ, NYT) and discussed extensively in podcast-land. See also, related discussions from HN [2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drone_strikes_in_Pakistan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drone_strikes_in_Pakistan [2] https://hn.algolia.com/?query=drone%20strike&sort=byPopularity&prefix=false&page=0&dateRange=all&type=story https://hn.algolia.com/?query=drone%20strike&sort=byPopulari...
  - mongmong 10y ago
3131s 10y ago
> there are children in Yemen right now who are afraid of blue skies. On that point, I would encourage everyone to read this article and watch the accompanying video: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/10/drones-dream-yemeni-teenager-mohammed-tuaiman-death-cia-strike https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/10/drones-dream-y... The Yemeni boy featured, whose father and older brother were killed already in US drone strikes, is quoted as saying that children in his village have nightmares of the drones. The boy himself was killed in a drone strike just two weeks after the interview.
- baursak 10y ago
  Killer robots trawling the skies and bringing nightmares to children. If that's not the purest depiction of terrorism, I don't know what is.
deepnotderp 10y ago
>i hope the technologists who created this infrastructure think about that when they try to sleep. Yes, because people flying planes instead of drones is so much better, right? (/s) The problem isn't in the technology people, it's in who's using it. Obama and Trump's expansions of these programs is what the problem is.
- dcposch 10y ago
  The problem is both. Obviously prime responsibility lies with the decision makers--but that doesn't absolve the many people who are making a lot of money building these systems. Systems which they know will be used to kill people extrajudicially, invisibly, far from any war zone; people whose deaths will never even be acknowledged.
  - deepnotderp 10y ago
    In general I would agree, but isn't autonomous warfare a more humane type of war? We say that robots should take our dangerous jobs. What jobs are more dangerous than a soldier?
- rangibaby 10y ago
  Actually it is. There are no expensive planes to operate, no crashing or pilots dying, which means there is no political risk to carrying these missions out. Just lots of brown people getting blown up, and we've seen how much people care about them.
jcranmer 10y ago
> i'm disappointed that i haven't seen a single member of the media or Democratic party establishment talk about Obama's expansion of the drone program. You must not read a lot of media then. Pretty much every source of media I read on a regular basis has commented about the drone assassination program, Obama's expansion of it, the questionable legality of it (particularly as it applies to US citizens), and generally pointed out problematic aspects of it. Even Democrats have complained about aspects of it: http://www.military.com/daily-news/2013/04/24/democrats-republicans-press-obama-on-drone-use.html http://www.military.com/daily-news/2013/04/24/democrats-repu...
- imron 10y ago
  Thought experiment - what is worse - a) expanding a drone program and killing thousands (including by the US's own admission 100+ innocent civilians, but probably many more given that the US classes all military aged men in a strike zone as 'combatants' regardless of whether they are actual combatants or not), or b) issuing a temporary visa ban to a large number of those countries actively being bombed by the above-mentioned drone program? Does your answer match with which one has seen the most outrage from the press and the general populace? Why or why not?
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - nyxtom 10y ago
    Seems like we now have the worst of both worlds now. A ruthless drone program, botched operations, and unnecessarily misguided bans.
    - oh_sigh 10y ago
      Sure, but the question remains why bombing and killing thousands is not protest worthy, but preventing people from a few countries from temporarily entering the US is protest worthy. Call me cynical, but I bet if Obama issued Trumps EO, and Trump expanded the drone program, we would be having the exact same protests against Trump.
lawnchair_larry 10y ago
> there are children in Yemen right now who are afraid of blue skies. drones fly high enough to be invisible to the naked eye; most strikes are carried out in clear weather. Some adults get PTSD just from being in a car accident. Growing up in this environment must thoroughly destroy a child's sanity. I wonder what the the US drone campaign is teaching an entire generation now approaching adulthood.
- ionised 10y ago
  To hate the US, thus sustaining the never-ending cycle of 'terrorists' > war > profit that keeps the US military industrial complex ticking along.

by dcposch 10y ago

nharada 10y ago

"I just like solving interesting problems, I don't care about politics. And besides, if I don't do it someone else will anyway"

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
striking 10y ago
See, that quote felt like it applied to me... until we started talking about choosing whether someone lives or dies. The thought becomes really scary when taken to its logical conclusion. After mulling it over a bit, I don't think I could work as a defense contractor.
- rangibaby 10y ago
  "I would prefer to have invented a machine that people could use and that would help farmers with their work - for example a lawnmower." - Mikhail Kalashnikov "If only I had known, I should have become a watchmaker." - Albert Einstein

kurttheviking 10y ago

> i'm disappointed that i haven't seen a single member of the media or Democratic party establishments talk about Obama's expansion of the drone program. I have been hearing and reading about the expansion of Obama's drone program for years in "the media". Some quick Googling shows several examples. - http://www.npr.org/2013/04/28/179597464/leading-senate-democrat-has-concerns-with-u-s-drones http://www.npr.org/2013/04/28/179597464/leading-senate-democ... - http://www.npr.org/2012/06/20/155389081/are-drones-obamas-legacy-in-war-on-terrorism http://www.npr.org/2012/06/20/155389081/are-drones-obamas-le... - http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/23/politics/obama-drone-warren-weinstein-hostages/ http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/23/politics/obama-drone-warren-we... - https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/obamas-drone-war-is-a-shameful-part-of-his-legacy/2016/05/05/a727eea8-12ea-11e6-8967-7ac733c56f12_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/obamas-drone-war-is-... - http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2016/01/12/reflecting-on-obamas-presidency/obamas-embrace-of-drone-strikes-will-be-a-lasting-legacy http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2016/01/12/reflecting-o... One can argue that consumers of media have chosen to ignore or accept these stories, but I think it's a little disingenuous to suggest the issues aren't being raised at all.

proee 10y ago
Just because you posted a few example articles, does not negate the fact that the media fails to provide front-page coverage of such an important issue.
- kurttheviking 10y ago
  During the end of Preisdent Obama's first term and into the start of the second term there was a series of uproars about illegal drone strikes in Pakistan[1]. This was covered on the front page of the papers I see (WSJ, NYT) and discussed extensively in podcast-land. See also, related discussions from HN [2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drone_strikes_in_Pakistan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drone_strikes_in_Pakistan [2] https://hn.algolia.com/?query=drone%20strike&sort=byPopularity&prefix=false&page=0&dateRange=all&type=story https://hn.algolia.com/?query=drone%20strike&sort=byPopulari...
- mongmong 10y ago

3131s 10y ago

> there are children in Yemen right now who are afraid of blue skies. On that point, I would encourage everyone to read this article and watch the accompanying video: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/10/drones-dream-yemeni-teenager-mohammed-tuaiman-death-cia-strike https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/10/drones-dream-y... The Yemeni boy featured, whose father and older brother were killed already in US drone strikes, is quoted as saying that children in his village have nightmares of the drones. The boy himself was killed in a drone strike just two weeks after the interview.

baursak 10y ago
Killer robots trawling the skies and bringing nightmares to children. If that's not the purest depiction of terrorism, I don't know what is.

deepnotderp 10y ago

>i hope the technologists who created this infrastructure think about that when they try to sleep. Yes, because people flying planes instead of drones is so much better, right? (/s) The problem isn't in the technology people, it's in who's using it. Obama and Trump's expansions of these programs is what the problem is.

dcposch 10y ago
The problem is both. Obviously prime responsibility lies with the decision makers--but that doesn't absolve the many people who are making a lot of money building these systems. Systems which they know will be used to kill people extrajudicially, invisibly, far from any war zone; people whose deaths will never even be acknowledged.
- deepnotderp 10y ago
  In general I would agree, but isn't autonomous warfare a more humane type of war? We say that robots should take our dangerous jobs. What jobs are more dangerous than a soldier?
rangibaby 10y ago
Actually it is. There are no expensive planes to operate, no crashing or pilots dying, which means there is no political risk to carrying these missions out. Just lots of brown people getting blown up, and we've seen how much people care about them.

jcranmer 10y ago

> i'm disappointed that i haven't seen a single member of the media or Democratic party establishment talk about Obama's expansion of the drone program. You must not read a lot of media then. Pretty much every source of media I read on a regular basis has commented about the drone assassination program, Obama's expansion of it, the questionable legality of it (particularly as it applies to US citizens), and generally pointed out problematic aspects of it. Even Democrats have complained about aspects of it: http://www.military.com/daily-news/2013/04/24/democrats-republicans-press-obama-on-drone-use.html http://www.military.com/daily-news/2013/04/24/democrats-repu...

imron 10y ago
Thought experiment - what is worse - a) expanding a drone program and killing thousands (including by the US's own admission 100+ innocent civilians, but probably many more given that the US classes all military aged men in a strike zone as 'combatants' regardless of whether they are actual combatants or not), or b) issuing a temporary visa ban to a large number of those countries actively being bombed by the above-mentioned drone program? Does your answer match with which one has seen the most outrage from the press and the general populace? Why or why not?
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- nyxtom 10y ago
  Seems like we now have the worst of both worlds now. A ruthless drone program, botched operations, and unnecessarily misguided bans.
  - oh_sigh 10y ago
    Sure, but the question remains why bombing and killing thousands is not protest worthy, but preventing people from a few countries from temporarily entering the US is protest worthy. Call me cynical, but I bet if Obama issued Trumps EO, and Trump expanded the drone program, we would be having the exact same protests against Trump.

lawnchair_larry 10y ago

> there are children in Yemen right now who are afraid of blue skies. drones fly high enough to be invisible to the naked eye; most strikes are carried out in clear weather. Some adults get PTSD just from being in a car accident. Growing up in this environment must thoroughly destroy a child's sanity. I wonder what the the US drone campaign is teaching an entire generation now approaching adulthood.

ionised 10y ago
To hate the US, thus sustaining the never-ending cycle of 'terrorists' > war > profit that keeps the US military industrial complex ticking along.