9 ms·

Why many Indian politicians have a criminal record

139 points by jimsojim 10y ago

andrewvijay 10y ago
I'm an Indian and can verify that. A lot of scumbags keep winning and hold onto power here usually by hook or crook. In fact even the prime Minister modi was on a mass murdering case of Gujarat 2002. He was the chief minister when the riots Happened!! That guy has still not even apologized or said sorry to the families whose people were killed. The current govt has the largest share of criminals in power. There are some honest players coming up. We'll see if they are really honest in a few years.
- adictator 10y ago
  > In fact even the prime Minister modi was on a mass murdering case of Gujarat 2002. He was the chief minister when the riots Happened!! That guy has still not even apologized or said sorry to the families whose people were killed. I think you should stop whatever you are doing and get appointed as a judge in the Supreme Court of India. Obviously you know so much more than what they know or have deduced about criminals in India, much less the PM.
  - andrewvijay 10y ago
    did you not read the word 'was' ? Im not saying he is a mass murderer. Im only saying he was on the case for long. Your insecurity about this only makes me even more suspicious.
    - yogesha 10y ago
      Then why should he say sorry?
      - andrewvijay 10y ago
        Responsibility.
        adictator 10y ago
        If he said "Sorry" the scumbags would say "See, he said 'Sorry', obviously he's guilty", if he does not say "Sorry", the remaining scumbags say "He did not even say 'Sorry', he needs to take responsibility"! If you think people can't see through such antics as you're playing, you are really deluded & grossly underestimate the general intelligence of humans!
      - alokyadav15 10y ago
        for " political correctness " .
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    - adictator 10y ago
      WTF man! Just because people do not agree with you, they become "insecure"? Unless you have been living under a rock or deep inside a cave you should know that almost every political party in India as well as many international NGO's, including our very own Hillary Clinton were out to "Get Modi". There were at least two Special Task Forces (STFs) that said there is no evidence of Modi being involved in the killings. He was the CM at that time, that was his only fault. The Courts in India have given him a clean chit, this was when he was a mere CM, at a time when the Congress party was in power. I mean, you got be really dense... And what's with the 'was'? Just because you claim someone "was" a mass murderer, you can absolve yourself when every known & serious inquiry against him proves otherwise? Please try to be objective & analytical. Look up facts. Just because you like things to be a certain way does not make it so. Try to understand the divisive politic people play, but their best hands couldn't prove what was false. I meant it seriously - if anyone can prove that he is guilty, go and make your case. Stop being a keyboard warrior!!
  - mu1ex 10y ago
    That'll be tough mate. Judiciary in India is another corrupt system, where only money works.
  - WhitneyLand 10y ago
    What's with your negative and sarcastic response to a commenter who actually cares about a serious situation? If something he said was untrue or misleading, please cite facts or refute so we can be in on the joke.
    - adictator 10y ago
      The commenter is deluded and does not care for facts. This case has been running in prime coverage for the last 10-12 years because almost everybody took an interest in it, because they wanted to "Get Modi". Many inquiries were setup, including special task forces, commissions, many US & European based NGO's in the guise of missionaries came to India searching for mass graves, he was banned from getting a Visa to enter the US, the supreme court in India held multiple hearings etc. After all that, he was deemed innocent. This shows that there is plausible evidence that the commenter was not serious, & in fact a troll or he was absolutely clueless, yet does not & cannot resist from accusing someone of being a "mass murderer". So there, that's the joke! You can't get more serious than that about this situation.
      - WhitneyLand 10y ago
        Thank you for providing the context that is helpful. However a quick skim of content seems to suggest that a significant amount of people do not have confidence in the impartiality of the investigations, and that it remains a controversial issue.
        adictator 10y ago
        >a significant amount of people do not have confidence in the impartiality of the investigations Generally, you would be right in assuming that. But in this case, Modi was in quite a vulnerable situation, when the primary opposition party (Congress) was in power in the central government at that time; they even had CBI (Central Bureau of Investigation) in their control, there were too many international parties out to dig up evidence and accuse him (which they did, sans evidence). But at the end, not one charge stood up. In other words, he was proven innocent multiple times against all odds. The Visa ban was also overturned without a whimper, in fact Modi & Obama became such good friends....
- NotACongitard 10y ago
  Oh! We've an honest person here. Who are those honest players coming up? Hope it's not 'pseudos' like Kejriwal. Also, you should get appointed as a Supreme Court Judge ASAP.
- rameshdsouza 10y ago
  Yes. Few scumbags from a family had been holding the helm in India. Fortunately, their next generation is a bit retard, hopefully they'll weed out.
  - andrewvijay 10y ago
    Yeah the congress has to be gone for good. Also the current govt! They have the highest no of criminals in the parliament now. Its not even up for debate. They need to be weeded out.
- alokyadav15 10y ago
  What about 1948,1986,1992,2013... Riots , why always whining about Gujrat or you think that only in gujrat riots politicians were involved ?
  - andrewvijay 10y ago
    They are not the prime ministers now. The context that we are talking here is about the current govt. If the previous govts had lots of wrong doers then it doesnt mean the current govt doing the same is okay. Get your priorities straight.
    - alokyadav15 10y ago
      > If the previous govts had lots of wrong doers then it doesnt mean the current govt doing the same is okay . Supreme court of India gave clean chit to Modi [0]. second here context is Indian Politicians not current Indian govt. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Narendra-Modi-gets-clean-chit-in-SIT-report-on-Gujarat-riots-Zakia-Jafri-vows-to-continue-her-fight/articleshow/12612345.cms http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Narendra-Modi-gets-...
      - andrewvijay 10y ago
        dude. Im not even saying he is guilty here!! Why are you so insecure? Im just stating what had happened. I really dont give a shit about modi to care about him or his acts. You started typing without even reading the comment?
        dang 10y ago
        We've banned this account for repeated incivility.
    - rameshdsouza 10y ago
      Using the same argument - we shouldn't discredit those crimes and criminals just because they are not prime ministers or chief ministers now. Get your priorities right.
- guru110 10y ago
  I dont know why such scumbags expect an apology from Modi. Supreme Court gave him clean chit. I am from Ahmedabad and whenever I see the reference of 2002 riots, I know its from ignorant people outside of Gujarat and who doesnt know anything about Godhara incident. He did what he could as a CM, only outsiders (non-gujjus) still find he is the one should be blamed. What a pitty! 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godhra_train_burning https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godhra_train_burning
  - andrewvijay 10y ago
    Because its the basic responsibility of a chief minister to be accountable for the violence that happened as the law and order is under him. I know its very wrong to expect apologies from barbaric cunts.
  - adictator 10y ago
    > scumbags Key operative word.
- sanjayts 10y ago
  > The current govt has the largest share of criminals in power Surely you jest? No mention of Congress who have literally destroyed our country by their rampant corruption and being in power for so long that it is proving to be a gargantuan task to get back on our feet?
kumarm 10y ago
The Article doesn't cover basics of Criminality of Indian Politicians. These are just two example in last week from 1 south Indian state caught on camera (Because Local media would not cover since pretty much media in state supports ruling party): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOueUSVSuYk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOueUSVSuYk [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hG2fqW-tcM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hG2fqW-tcM [2] Very rarely criminality of Indian politicians comes out because Media do not want to cover it. These showed up because someone could record. But in both cases, elected representatives and their goons are already out of trouble. India is a land of lawlessness and that's a reality. [1]A journalist being beaten by local representatives brother because he wrote on their corruption. [2]Goons of local representative beating a women (1 eyed mind you) because she didn't agree for their illegal construction in front of her house.
- anondon 10y ago
  The videos you linked were so hard to watch. > India is a land of lawlessness and that's a reality. It's a little more subtle : well connected people to whatever they want and get away with no consequences. People who dare to oppose these powerful people discover the true meaning of hell. It's true practically everywhere in the world including the US. IMO for all the shit that social networks receive (for good reasons), one of the side effects is that it's a lot easier to share such gross violations of law an example of which are the above videos. In a way social networks give people power.
  - Spooky23 10y ago
    I disagree, at least for more local issues. Social media or other attention platforms only help if there's a single action that needs to happen. Case in point: a few neighbors had a shitbird stealing milk bottles delivered to our porches. The police obviously aren't sending in the detectives for 4-5 $2 bottles a week. But we captured the guy in camera, did a social media assault that attracted the news. A city fireman saw the guy on TV, recognized him from another petty theft, and called his cop friend who found the guy. That's what social media does for individual or small group problems. If you have a problem with a building project or city action, social media will attract sympathetic comments and crazy people. To get action, you need to round up people and show up at events and hearings. I've helped people out fighting powerful interests.l at a local level. They always fight back, but in modern America you don't have people showing up to rape your wife or beat you. At the end of the day, powerful people need money, and its very possible to create the perception of risk that will slow down the funding stream. That tends to solve David v. Goliath issues.
sg47 10y ago
I have another theory. You don't get votes in India. You buy them. A wannabe politician needs a lot of money to win an election. Criminals who have made money through bootlegging or by beating up people have a leg up in this respect. Once they get to power, they indulge in corruption to pay off the people who helped them win and to save for the next election. The next election, they have more money to pay the average voter so his competitor needs to be an even bigger criminal.
- tuananh 10y ago
  politics in a nutshell
- sonink 10y ago
  How do you buy votes if the ballot is secret ? Not saying that people don't try, and there is that odd politician who does come only from money. By and large most chief ministers victory can be explained not by money, but more by identity/group based politics. This is pretty much also exactly the same to what happens in the US.
  - peteretep 10y ago
    > How do you buy votes if > the ballot is secret? Is this a rhetorical question? The answer is by distributing 2,000INR notes to people and transporting them to the polling station, relying on reciprocity and promising more to come if you get elected.
    - sonink 10y ago
      No its not rhetorical and your answer is naive at best. People in India will take money if you give it to them, but they will vote on identity only. This is because there is no reciprocity - once the voting is done the politicians have no incentive to pay them again and they don't. The only reciprocity that exists, if at all, is along identity and everyone gets it. Take a look at any CM in any state of India - their win is largely explained by identity and not money. The current PM who was two time CM of a state, doesnt even have a house to his name.
parennoob 10y ago
In case anyone wants to see more specific data, there is a site (http://netafilter.in/ http://netafilter.in/) that displays all constituencies, their MPs and the number of cases filed against them on a map.
- shade23 10y ago
  This is really nice. Any sources for the data?
  - parennoob 10y ago
    The information icon at the top says the database is from http://www.myneta.info/ http://www.myneta.info/, another decent site for Indian political data. Myneta.info looks like it is maintained by a group called The Association for Democratic Reforms (http://adrindia.org/about-adr/who-we-are http://adrindia.org/about-adr/who-we-are), and based on affidavits submitted by the candidates themselves (apparently a Supreme Court declaration that makes it mandatory). This means the actual number of cases could be different from those declared.
Nano2rad 10y ago
Indian villages are still tribal. The tribal cheiftains win the elections. As there is no legitimate methods to be chieftains, the way to be one is to show power or be a criminal. Now real power is with politician, and crininals become politicians. There is also corruption. The higher posts are occupied by castes in higher levels. There has to be a way to create a level playing field and that is not to stop corruption but force the bureaucrats to take bribes from all sections of the society. For that you need criminals as leaders. So OBC, other backward communities (official name) and communities in lower level elect leaders with criminal background. The communities in the top level have their members in bureaucracy and they are "influential".
poitor 10y ago
India has one of the largest below poverty line and uneducated population in the world. Isn't it obvious that you can just win them over giving them a little money as less as 500 or 1000 Rs which is gonna make their days. I remember when the voting guys come to my town, the parties generally setup up a buffet system for lunch and if you had voted for the party you get free lunch. An then there is giving free gifts like TV's, Phone's and mixers if you vote for them. Tell me can you challenge a system like this??
- kazagistar 10y ago
  Anonymous voting, so you can just lie about it and get the free gifts anyways?
  - MarkMc 10y ago
    Isn't voting in India already anonymous? I suspect that even with anonymous voting people's psychology will compel them to vote for the party who gives them a gifts.
grandalf 10y ago
Many US politicians and officials would easily be considered war criminals if there were any sort of binding international law. Even more would likely be jailed for activities that are well known if they weren't already powerful. Once criminal organizations get powerful enough they can start doing extensive image management and PR, as well as building elaborate headquarters complete with fancy architecture, columns, etc. Governments are simply the most successful criminal organizations. We the people are continually fooled by the grandeur of the columns and the silly dignity of the titles. We're also overly grateful for the gifts of patronage they dole out to keep us at bay such as welfare, medals, etc. The more pomp and circumstance, the more ritual and solemnity, the bigger the racket. It should be no surprise that both candidates in the recent US election still have numerous FBI investigations into their business dealings, and the majority of Americans considered both to be highly unfit for office. Our presidential motorcade is a sham... The vehicles are tanks made to look like limousines, yet we'd look down upon a foreign leader who paraded around in a tank. All tyrants attract sycophants, and in our case they make up most of the political and media elite. The most humiliating display in our nation is the exceedingly rare occasion when a president condescends to sit for a one-on-one interview. The softball questions are spoken with a humility (and a reassurance that there certainly won't be any sort of tough follow-up question) that should make us all gag. In the US, there is a steady stream of news stories about corrupt or otherwise undesirable situations elsewhere in the world.
abverma 10y ago
Rampant corruption has turned a lot of people into cynics in India. The phrase "Kuch nahi ho sakda India da. China dekh lo kithe pahunch gya" (Nothing will happen in India. See the development in China) gets thrown around a lot in a conversation. It isn't a problem that affects a single party, both the ruling BJP and the Congress have the same issues. The problem with BJP being our Dear Leader being rather illiterate and surrounded by "Yes Men". The man behind the demonetization was found out to be an individual with a PhD in Yoga. And of course, there's 2002. The Congress being the Congress mired itself with a series of scams in it's second term, and thus began what Bannon calls the "start of the right-wing revolt". A personal anecdote about the Congress: A cousin of mine once decided to run for the Lok Sabha but quickly changed his mind because he found out the Congress guy was bribing the poor people (of which there were a lot in his village) with bottles of Johnie-Walker from the past two elections. And ofcourse, it was easy for the said Congress individual to do so because the then Chief Minister was close to Ponty Chadha, the liquor baron with a monopoly in the state of Punjab, for which the CM went to Dubai unannounced [1]. You could write a multi-volume encyclopedia on the tales of the corrupt Indian Politician. [1]http://www.tribuneindia.com/2005/20050712/main3.htm http://www.tribuneindia.com/2005/20050712/main3.htm
- puranjay 10y ago
  This is what makes AAP's victory in Delhi not so surprising. Delhi is far richer than the rest of India; blatant bribery doesn't work quite as well here as it would be in another state
manojlds 10y ago
Ironically, the photo in the article is of former CM Jayalalitha who passed away last month. She has pending corruption cases against her. But when she died, the outpouring of praise from most people, many who were even against her while she was alive, has been unbelievable.
sonink 10y ago
Article sounds racist, but this is the economist after all. Here is the thing - If you look at the past 5 Prime Ministers of India and compare them to the past 5 Presidents of the US, you will find that India more or less throws up much better candidates than the US for the top spot. If Indian politicians had such a criminal record, this would be unlikely the case.
- lovemenot 10y ago
  I cannot imagine why you'd think The Economist is generally a racist publication. Have you ever read it? Really? I do not get such an impression from TE at all and I read it often. As to this article, The Economist is reviewing a book by a third-party. If the facts are correctly quoted from the book, the book's sources are correct and the item is newsworthy, I see no problem at all with such a book review. There need be no racial motivation for pointing out institutional failings in any country. India is an important country in so many ways, and the readers of The Economist would surely want to know about politics there.
  - sonink 10y ago
    It is racist because the institutional failing it is pointing out is born from the publications/authors prejudice rather than any objective assessment of reality.
    - lovemenot 10y ago
      Thanks for trying to explain your position. I don't have the facts myself. Perhaps you could give a specific example of which data in the article were incorrect. Also, I would be pleased to know how you were able to discern the motivation behind the supposed mistake(s) made in the article.
- adrianN 10y ago
  What's racist about it?
- zhemao 10y ago
known 10y ago
AKA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome
sudshekhar 10y ago
>Mr Vaishnav dispels the conventional wisdom that crooks win because they can get voters to focus on caste or some other sectarian allegiance, thus overlooking their criminality. If anything, the more serious the charge, the bigger the electoral boost, as politicians well know. Nothing in the article backs up this statement. I hope when the author publishes his book, somebody will point out why. I believe caste and identity politics play a huge role in such elections. Thefts and crimes are ignored precisely because people think that XYZ crook(from their caste/community) has the courage to stand up to authority and will represent them properly. Different communities promote up their own representatives and as the elections becomes dirtier, in the end only crooks from various communities stand up. Kind of similar to how capitalism forces merchants to sacrifice most skills not relevant to 'reducing cost/making money', Indian politics does this to our MPs/constituencies. Money and muscle power become a pre-requisite for being considered as a possible electoral candidate. Then again, the advent of social media and the internet has started changing things (I don't have stats to prove this though). Crimes committed by MPs (or their families) are being highlighted throughout the country and the guilty are being shamed. I use the word shamed because I am not too sure what happens once the media spotlight moves somewhere else. Possibly, they walk free...
RestlessMind 10y ago
There are some comments in this thread bringing out examples of corruption in the West. While Western societies are by no means perfect and have their own warts, they are much better than India when it comes to corruption, effective judiciary, free press or tolerance for scandals. People typically vote with their feet. If you have any doubts about which society treats its citizens better, just look at how many Indians are clamoring to get out of India and immigrate to USA/Europe and the numbers of Americans/Europeans wanting to immigrate to India.
- sonink 10y ago
  If people voted with their feet, how do you explain Bush and Trump ?
  - AstralStorm 10y ago
    You cannot vote with your feet if you cannot leave, and leaving takes both money and will.
  - RestlessMind 10y ago
    Maybe because nearly 50% of voting population actually preferred Bush/Trump over the alternative? Especially when federal government has vastly increased its power (defense, education, environment, taxes, social policies) and when president has the rare power of nominating supreme court justices who can then stay forever deciding crucial matters (corporations, abortion, gay marriages, affirmative action...). In such cases, its better to vote for a bad candidate on "my side" rather than a better candidate from "other side". In fewer words - hyper-polarization. Once you win republican or democratic primary, you are guaranteed to win 45% of the vote.
- pkd 10y ago
  Indians want to immigrate because of the much higher pay and savings in the western economies compared to the pay for the same job locally. I am sure a lot of people are motivated by the much more modern western culture as well but I can assure you that money is the motivation for the majority, as condescending as that sounds.
credo 10y ago
India does have a high level of criminality and corruption in politics, but it is different from the U.S. in one aspect. An Indian politician who brags about sexual assault and doesn't even deny video-taped evidence of the bragging .... would have no chance of being elected as Prime Minister. As we demonstrated in November, American voters have a much higher tolerance level when it comes to electing our president.
- silentguy 10y ago
  I beg to differ here. In India, you can be elected as a PM if you have large social media brigade. Our current PM has charges of rioting against him and he won by huge margin by using effective PR and his social media brigade.
  - pkd 10y ago
    I am not saying he was not indirectly responsible for the riots, but he has been cleared from those charges.
- puranjay 10y ago
  Um, we kinda elected a Prime Minister who was either complicit, or willfully incompetent during a large scale riot. I'm sorry, but "pussy grabbing" is nothing compared to Narendra Modi's history.
lukepothier 10y ago
> "One can walk just about the whole way from Mumbai to Kolkata without stepping foot outside a constituency whose MP isn’t facing a charge." So there's a line of clean constituencies from Mumbai to Kolkota? That 'isn't' should be an 'is'.
known 10y ago
Voting in elections is Hegemony, not Democracy in India without goo.gl/forms/g4fX5CELGg
known 10y ago
This is why British offered a separate country to UC/BC/SC/ST/Sikh/Christian/Parsi/Buddhist/Jain communities in 1932 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communal_Award https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communal_Award
tn13 10y ago
The article fails to differentiate between charges and conviction. In India anyone can get charged for a crime no one ever gets conviction. As an Indian I think Criminality of Indian Politicians is a non issue. Very few of the politicians are actual hard criminals. Most face charges that anyone in important position is likely to face. Nearly all my politician friends have been in jail and have criminal records but I can vouch they are pretty good people. India does not uniform laws and far too many laws to deal with the exactly same crime. Examples: 1. One of my friend has been fighting in court for last 7 years over a case registered on him by his political opponent. My friend called him "asshole". However as per Indian law it is a crime to abuse a person if the person belongs to specific caste (SC/ST) not just that, the police are required to register the case even if they think the charges are frivolous or unsubstantiated. This gentleman has been visiting court every few months. The charges will be dropped some day as a political bargaining chip. 2. I barely escaped having a criminal record when I participated in a political movement. The cops basically filed any random charges against the protestors including molestation, attempt to murder and what not. I escaped because I had a fake ID card with fake name on it. 3. A lot of civil offenses are "crimes" in India. For example you are CEO of a publishing company that publishes a scholarly book on world mythologies. Some person files a complain saying you (CEO) has hurt the sentiments of public which is a criminal offense. India Ebay CEO was arrested as a criminal becomes someone sold a CD on the website that had porn clip in it ! 4. Courts that don't work. Indian courts spend time only on cases that make the judges popular. Such as cases that involve celebrities or cricket. That is why conviction rates are next to nothing. One Indian celebrity recently got acquited from tow major crimes after around 12 years of fight. 5. Drinking wine or beer might be a crime in some states and in one state they want to give capital punishment for the same. 6. Eating beef might be a criminal offense.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

139 points by jimsojim 10y ago

I'm an Indian and can verify that. A lot of scumbags keep winning and hold onto power here usually by hook or crook. In fact even the prime Minister modi was on a mass murdering case of Gujarat 2002. He was the chief minister when the riots Happened!! That guy has still not even apologized or said sorry to the families whose people were killed. The current govt has the largest share of criminals in power. There are some honest players coming up. We'll see if they are really honest in a few years.

adictator 10y ago
> In fact even the prime Minister modi was on a mass murdering case of Gujarat 2002. He was the chief minister when the riots Happened!! That guy has still not even apologized or said sorry to the families whose people were killed. I think you should stop whatever you are doing and get appointed as a judge in the Supreme Court of India. Obviously you know so much more than what they know or have deduced about criminals in India, much less the PM.
- andrewvijay 10y ago
  did you not read the word 'was' ? Im not saying he is a mass murderer. Im only saying he was on the case for long. Your insecurity about this only makes me even more suspicious.
  - yogesha 10y ago
    Then why should he say sorry?
    - andrewvijay 10y ago
      Responsibility.
      - adictator 10y ago
        If he said "Sorry" the scumbags would say "See, he said 'Sorry', obviously he's guilty", if he does not say "Sorry", the remaining scumbags say "He did not even say 'Sorry', he needs to take responsibility"! If you think people can't see through such antics as you're playing, you are really deluded & grossly underestimate the general intelligence of humans!
    - alokyadav15 10y ago
      for " political correctness " .
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - adictator 10y ago
    WTF man! Just because people do not agree with you, they become "insecure"? Unless you have been living under a rock or deep inside a cave you should know that almost every political party in India as well as many international NGO's, including our very own Hillary Clinton were out to "Get Modi". There were at least two Special Task Forces (STFs) that said there is no evidence of Modi being involved in the killings. He was the CM at that time, that was his only fault. The Courts in India have given him a clean chit, this was when he was a mere CM, at a time when the Congress party was in power. I mean, you got be really dense... And what's with the 'was'? Just because you claim someone "was" a mass murderer, you can absolve yourself when every known & serious inquiry against him proves otherwise? Please try to be objective & analytical. Look up facts. Just because you like things to be a certain way does not make it so. Try to understand the divisive politic people play, but their best hands couldn't prove what was false. I meant it seriously - if anyone can prove that he is guilty, go and make your case. Stop being a keyboard warrior!!
- mu1ex 10y ago
  That'll be tough mate. Judiciary in India is another corrupt system, where only money works.
- WhitneyLand 10y ago
  What's with your negative and sarcastic response to a commenter who actually cares about a serious situation? If something he said was untrue or misleading, please cite facts or refute so we can be in on the joke.
  - adictator 10y ago
    The commenter is deluded and does not care for facts. This case has been running in prime coverage for the last 10-12 years because almost everybody took an interest in it, because they wanted to "Get Modi". Many inquiries were setup, including special task forces, commissions, many US & European based NGO's in the guise of missionaries came to India searching for mass graves, he was banned from getting a Visa to enter the US, the supreme court in India held multiple hearings etc. After all that, he was deemed innocent. This shows that there is plausible evidence that the commenter was not serious, & in fact a troll or he was absolutely clueless, yet does not & cannot resist from accusing someone of being a "mass murderer". So there, that's the joke! You can't get more serious than that about this situation.
    - WhitneyLand 10y ago
      Thank you for providing the context that is helpful. However a quick skim of content seems to suggest that a significant amount of people do not have confidence in the impartiality of the investigations, and that it remains a controversial issue.
      - adictator 10y ago
        >a significant amount of people do not have confidence in the impartiality of the investigations Generally, you would be right in assuming that. But in this case, Modi was in quite a vulnerable situation, when the primary opposition party (Congress) was in power in the central government at that time; they even had CBI (Central Bureau of Investigation) in their control, there were too many international parties out to dig up evidence and accuse him (which they did, sans evidence). But at the end, not one charge stood up. In other words, he was proven innocent multiple times against all odds. The Visa ban was also overturned without a whimper, in fact Modi & Obama became such good friends....
NotACongitard 10y ago
Oh! We've an honest person here. Who are those honest players coming up? Hope it's not 'pseudos' like Kejriwal. Also, you should get appointed as a Supreme Court Judge ASAP.
rameshdsouza 10y ago
Yes. Few scumbags from a family had been holding the helm in India. Fortunately, their next generation is a bit retard, hopefully they'll weed out.
- andrewvijay 10y ago
  Yeah the congress has to be gone for good. Also the current govt! They have the highest no of criminals in the parliament now. Its not even up for debate. They need to be weeded out.
alokyadav15 10y ago
What about 1948,1986,1992,2013... Riots , why always whining about Gujrat or you think that only in gujrat riots politicians were involved ?
- andrewvijay 10y ago
  They are not the prime ministers now. The context that we are talking here is about the current govt. If the previous govts had lots of wrong doers then it doesnt mean the current govt doing the same is okay. Get your priorities straight.
  - alokyadav15 10y ago
    > If the previous govts had lots of wrong doers then it doesnt mean the current govt doing the same is okay . Supreme court of India gave clean chit to Modi [0]. second here context is Indian Politicians not current Indian govt. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Narendra-Modi-gets-clean-chit-in-SIT-report-on-Gujarat-riots-Zakia-Jafri-vows-to-continue-her-fight/articleshow/12612345.cms http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Narendra-Modi-gets-...
    - andrewvijay 10y ago
      dude. Im not even saying he is guilty here!! Why are you so insecure? Im just stating what had happened. I really dont give a shit about modi to care about him or his acts. You started typing without even reading the comment?
      - dang 10y ago
        We've banned this account for repeated incivility.
  - rameshdsouza 10y ago
    Using the same argument - we shouldn't discredit those crimes and criminals just because they are not prime ministers or chief ministers now. Get your priorities right.
guru110 10y ago
I dont know why such scumbags expect an apology from Modi. Supreme Court gave him clean chit. I am from Ahmedabad and whenever I see the reference of 2002 riots, I know its from ignorant people outside of Gujarat and who doesnt know anything about Godhara incident. He did what he could as a CM, only outsiders (non-gujjus) still find he is the one should be blamed. What a pitty! 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godhra_train_burning https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godhra_train_burning
- andrewvijay 10y ago
  Because its the basic responsibility of a chief minister to be accountable for the violence that happened as the law and order is under him. I know its very wrong to expect apologies from barbaric cunts.
- adictator 10y ago
  > scumbags Key operative word.
sanjayts 10y ago
> The current govt has the largest share of criminals in power Surely you jest? No mention of Congress who have literally destroyed our country by their rampant corruption and being in power for so long that it is proving to be a gargantuan task to get back on our feet?

kumarm 10y ago

The Article doesn't cover basics of Criminality of Indian Politicians. These are just two example in last week from 1 south Indian state caught on camera (Because Local media would not cover since pretty much media in state supports ruling party): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOueUSVSuYk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOueUSVSuYk [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hG2fqW-tcM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hG2fqW-tcM [2] Very rarely criminality of Indian politicians comes out because Media do not want to cover it. These showed up because someone could record. But in both cases, elected representatives and their goons are already out of trouble. India is a land of lawlessness and that's a reality. [1]A journalist being beaten by local representatives brother because he wrote on their corruption. [2]Goons of local representative beating a women (1 eyed mind you) because she didn't agree for their illegal construction in front of her house.

anondon 10y ago
The videos you linked were so hard to watch. > India is a land of lawlessness and that's a reality. It's a little more subtle : well connected people to whatever they want and get away with no consequences. People who dare to oppose these powerful people discover the true meaning of hell. It's true practically everywhere in the world including the US. IMO for all the shit that social networks receive (for good reasons), one of the side effects is that it's a lot easier to share such gross violations of law an example of which are the above videos. In a way social networks give people power.
- Spooky23 10y ago
  I disagree, at least for more local issues. Social media or other attention platforms only help if there's a single action that needs to happen. Case in point: a few neighbors had a shitbird stealing milk bottles delivered to our porches. The police obviously aren't sending in the detectives for 4-5 $2 bottles a week. But we captured the guy in camera, did a social media assault that attracted the news. A city fireman saw the guy on TV, recognized him from another petty theft, and called his cop friend who found the guy. That's what social media does for individual or small group problems. If you have a problem with a building project or city action, social media will attract sympathetic comments and crazy people. To get action, you need to round up people and show up at events and hearings. I've helped people out fighting powerful interests.l at a local level. They always fight back, but in modern America you don't have people showing up to rape your wife or beat you. At the end of the day, powerful people need money, and its very possible to create the perception of risk that will slow down the funding stream. That tends to solve David v. Goliath issues.

sg47 10y ago

I have another theory. You don't get votes in India. You buy them. A wannabe politician needs a lot of money to win an election. Criminals who have made money through bootlegging or by beating up people have a leg up in this respect. Once they get to power, they indulge in corruption to pay off the people who helped them win and to save for the next election. The next election, they have more money to pay the average voter so his competitor needs to be an even bigger criminal.

tuananh 10y ago
politics in a nutshell
sonink 10y ago
How do you buy votes if the ballot is secret ? Not saying that people don't try, and there is that odd politician who does come only from money. By and large most chief ministers victory can be explained not by money, but more by identity/group based politics. This is pretty much also exactly the same to what happens in the US.
- peteretep 10y ago
  > How do you buy votes if > the ballot is secret? Is this a rhetorical question? The answer is by distributing 2,000INR notes to people and transporting them to the polling station, relying on reciprocity and promising more to come if you get elected.
  - sonink 10y ago
    No its not rhetorical and your answer is naive at best. People in India will take money if you give it to them, but they will vote on identity only. This is because there is no reciprocity - once the voting is done the politicians have no incentive to pay them again and they don't. The only reciprocity that exists, if at all, is along identity and everyone gets it. Take a look at any CM in any state of India - their win is largely explained by identity and not money. The current PM who was two time CM of a state, doesnt even have a house to his name.

parennoob 10y ago

In case anyone wants to see more specific data, there is a site (http://netafilter.in/ http://netafilter.in/) that displays all constituencies, their MPs and the number of cases filed against them on a map.

shade23 10y ago
This is really nice. Any sources for the data?
- parennoob 10y ago
  The information icon at the top says the database is from http://www.myneta.info/ http://www.myneta.info/, another decent site for Indian political data. Myneta.info looks like it is maintained by a group called The Association for Democratic Reforms (http://adrindia.org/about-adr/who-we-are http://adrindia.org/about-adr/who-we-are), and based on affidavits submitted by the candidates themselves (apparently a Supreme Court declaration that makes it mandatory). This means the actual number of cases could be different from those declared.

Nano2rad 10y ago

Indian villages are still tribal. The tribal cheiftains win the elections. As there is no legitimate methods to be chieftains, the way to be one is to show power or be a criminal. Now real power is with politician, and crininals become politicians. There is also corruption. The higher posts are occupied by castes in higher levels. There has to be a way to create a level playing field and that is not to stop corruption but force the bureaucrats to take bribes from all sections of the society. For that you need criminals as leaders. So OBC, other backward communities (official name) and communities in lower level elect leaders with criminal background. The communities in the top level have their members in bureaucracy and they are "influential".

poitor 10y ago

India has one of the largest below poverty line and uneducated population in the world. Isn't it obvious that you can just win them over giving them a little money as less as 500 or 1000 Rs which is gonna make their days. I remember when the voting guys come to my town, the parties generally setup up a buffet system for lunch and if you had voted for the party you get free lunch. An then there is giving free gifts like TV's, Phone's and mixers if you vote for them. Tell me can you challenge a system like this??

kazagistar 10y ago
Anonymous voting, so you can just lie about it and get the free gifts anyways?
- MarkMc 10y ago
  Isn't voting in India already anonymous? I suspect that even with anonymous voting people's psychology will compel them to vote for the party who gives them a gifts.

grandalf 10y ago

Many US politicians and officials would easily be considered war criminals if there were any sort of binding international law. Even more would likely be jailed for activities that are well known if they weren't already powerful. Once criminal organizations get powerful enough they can start doing extensive image management and PR, as well as building elaborate headquarters complete with fancy architecture, columns, etc. Governments are simply the most successful criminal organizations. We the people are continually fooled by the grandeur of the columns and the silly dignity of the titles. We're also overly grateful for the gifts of patronage they dole out to keep us at bay such as welfare, medals, etc. The more pomp and circumstance, the more ritual and solemnity, the bigger the racket. It should be no surprise that both candidates in the recent US election still have numerous FBI investigations into their business dealings, and the majority of Americans considered both to be highly unfit for office. Our presidential motorcade is a sham... The vehicles are tanks made to look like limousines, yet we'd look down upon a foreign leader who paraded around in a tank. All tyrants attract sycophants, and in our case they make up most of the political and media elite. The most humiliating display in our nation is the exceedingly rare occasion when a president condescends to sit for a one-on-one interview. The softball questions are spoken with a humility (and a reassurance that there certainly won't be any sort of tough follow-up question) that should make us all gag. In the US, there is a steady stream of news stories about corrupt or otherwise undesirable situations elsewhere in the world.

abverma 10y ago

Rampant corruption has turned a lot of people into cynics in India. The phrase "Kuch nahi ho sakda India da. China dekh lo kithe pahunch gya" (Nothing will happen in India. See the development in China) gets thrown around a lot in a conversation. It isn't a problem that affects a single party, both the ruling BJP and the Congress have the same issues. The problem with BJP being our Dear Leader being rather illiterate and surrounded by "Yes Men". The man behind the demonetization was found out to be an individual with a PhD in Yoga. And of course, there's 2002. The Congress being the Congress mired itself with a series of scams in it's second term, and thus began what Bannon calls the "start of the right-wing revolt". A personal anecdote about the Congress: A cousin of mine once decided to run for the Lok Sabha but quickly changed his mind because he found out the Congress guy was bribing the poor people (of which there were a lot in his village) with bottles of Johnie-Walker from the past two elections. And ofcourse, it was easy for the said Congress individual to do so because the then Chief Minister was close to Ponty Chadha, the liquor baron with a monopoly in the state of Punjab, for which the CM went to Dubai unannounced [1]. You could write a multi-volume encyclopedia on the tales of the corrupt Indian Politician. [1]http://www.tribuneindia.com/2005/20050712/main3.htm http://www.tribuneindia.com/2005/20050712/main3.htm

puranjay 10y ago
This is what makes AAP's victory in Delhi not so surprising. Delhi is far richer than the rest of India; blatant bribery doesn't work quite as well here as it would be in another state

manojlds 10y ago

Ironically, the photo in the article is of former CM Jayalalitha who passed away last month. She has pending corruption cases against her. But when she died, the outpouring of praise from most people, many who were even against her while she was alive, has been unbelievable.

sonink 10y ago

Article sounds racist, but this is the economist after all. Here is the thing - If you look at the past 5 Prime Ministers of India and compare them to the past 5 Presidents of the US, you will find that India more or less throws up much better candidates than the US for the top spot. If Indian politicians had such a criminal record, this would be unlikely the case.

lovemenot 10y ago
I cannot imagine why you'd think The Economist is generally a racist publication. Have you ever read it? Really? I do not get such an impression from TE at all and I read it often. As to this article, The Economist is reviewing a book by a third-party. If the facts are correctly quoted from the book, the book's sources are correct and the item is newsworthy, I see no problem at all with such a book review. There need be no racial motivation for pointing out institutional failings in any country. India is an important country in so many ways, and the readers of The Economist would surely want to know about politics there.
- sonink 10y ago
  It is racist because the institutional failing it is pointing out is born from the publications/authors prejudice rather than any objective assessment of reality.
  - lovemenot 10y ago
    Thanks for trying to explain your position. I don't have the facts myself. Perhaps you could give a specific example of which data in the article were incorrect. Also, I would be pleased to know how you were able to discern the motivation behind the supposed mistake(s) made in the article.
adrianN 10y ago
What's racist about it?
zhemao 10y ago

known 10y ago

AKA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome

sudshekhar 10y ago

>Mr Vaishnav dispels the conventional wisdom that crooks win because they can get voters to focus on caste or some other sectarian allegiance, thus overlooking their criminality. If anything, the more serious the charge, the bigger the electoral boost, as politicians well know. Nothing in the article backs up this statement. I hope when the author publishes his book, somebody will point out why. I believe caste and identity politics play a huge role in such elections. Thefts and crimes are ignored precisely because people think that XYZ crook(from their caste/community) has the courage to stand up to authority and will represent them properly. Different communities promote up their own representatives and as the elections becomes dirtier, in the end only crooks from various communities stand up. Kind of similar to how capitalism forces merchants to sacrifice most skills not relevant to 'reducing cost/making money', Indian politics does this to our MPs/constituencies. Money and muscle power become a pre-requisite for being considered as a possible electoral candidate. Then again, the advent of social media and the internet has started changing things (I don't have stats to prove this though). Crimes committed by MPs (or their families) are being highlighted throughout the country and the guilty are being shamed. I use the word shamed because I am not too sure what happens once the media spotlight moves somewhere else. Possibly, they walk free...

RestlessMind 10y ago

There are some comments in this thread bringing out examples of corruption in the West. While Western societies are by no means perfect and have their own warts, they are much better than India when it comes to corruption, effective judiciary, free press or tolerance for scandals. People typically vote with their feet. If you have any doubts about which society treats its citizens better, just look at how many Indians are clamoring to get out of India and immigrate to USA/Europe and the numbers of Americans/Europeans wanting to immigrate to India.

sonink 10y ago
If people voted with their feet, how do you explain Bush and Trump ?
- AstralStorm 10y ago
  You cannot vote with your feet if you cannot leave, and leaving takes both money and will.
- RestlessMind 10y ago
  Maybe because nearly 50% of voting population actually preferred Bush/Trump over the alternative? Especially when federal government has vastly increased its power (defense, education, environment, taxes, social policies) and when president has the rare power of nominating supreme court justices who can then stay forever deciding crucial matters (corporations, abortion, gay marriages, affirmative action...). In such cases, its better to vote for a bad candidate on "my side" rather than a better candidate from "other side". In fewer words - hyper-polarization. Once you win republican or democratic primary, you are guaranteed to win 45% of the vote.
pkd 10y ago
Indians want to immigrate because of the much higher pay and savings in the western economies compared to the pay for the same job locally. I am sure a lot of people are motivated by the much more modern western culture as well but I can assure you that money is the motivation for the majority, as condescending as that sounds.

credo 10y ago

India does have a high level of criminality and corruption in politics, but it is different from the U.S. in one aspect. An Indian politician who brags about sexual assault and doesn't even deny video-taped evidence of the bragging .... would have no chance of being elected as Prime Minister. As we demonstrated in November, American voters have a much higher tolerance level when it comes to electing our president.

silentguy 10y ago
I beg to differ here. In India, you can be elected as a PM if you have large social media brigade. Our current PM has charges of rioting against him and he won by huge margin by using effective PR and his social media brigade.
- pkd 10y ago
  I am not saying he was not indirectly responsible for the riots, but he has been cleared from those charges.
puranjay 10y ago
Um, we kinda elected a Prime Minister who was either complicit, or willfully incompetent during a large scale riot. I'm sorry, but "pussy grabbing" is nothing compared to Narendra Modi's history.

lukepothier 10y ago

> "One can walk just about the whole way from Mumbai to Kolkata without stepping foot outside a constituency whose MP isn’t facing a charge." So there's a line of clean constituencies from Mumbai to Kolkota? That 'isn't' should be an 'is'.

known 10y ago

Voting in elections is Hegemony, not Democracy in India without goo.gl/forms/g4fX5CELGg

known 10y ago

This is why British offered a separate country to UC/BC/SC/ST/Sikh/Christian/Parsi/Buddhist/Jain communities in 1932 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communal_Award https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communal_Award

tn13 10y ago

The article fails to differentiate between charges and conviction. In India anyone can get charged for a crime no one ever gets conviction. As an Indian I think Criminality of Indian Politicians is a non issue. Very few of the politicians are actual hard criminals. Most face charges that anyone in important position is likely to face. Nearly all my politician friends have been in jail and have criminal records but I can vouch they are pretty good people. India does not uniform laws and far too many laws to deal with the exactly same crime. Examples: 1. One of my friend has been fighting in court for last 7 years over a case registered on him by his political opponent. My friend called him "asshole". However as per Indian law it is a crime to abuse a person if the person belongs to specific caste (SC/ST) not just that, the police are required to register the case even if they think the charges are frivolous or unsubstantiated. This gentleman has been visiting court every few months. The charges will be dropped some day as a political bargaining chip. 2. I barely escaped having a criminal record when I participated in a political movement. The cops basically filed any random charges against the protestors including molestation, attempt to murder and what not. I escaped because I had a fake ID card with fake name on it. 3. A lot of civil offenses are "crimes" in India. For example you are CEO of a publishing company that publishes a scholarly book on world mythologies. Some person files a complain saying you (CEO) has hurt the sentiments of public which is a criminal offense. India Ebay CEO was arrested as a criminal becomes someone sold a CD on the website that had porn clip in it ! 4. Courts that don't work. Indian courts spend time only on cases that make the judges popular. Such as cases that involve celebrities or cricket. That is why conviction rates are next to nothing. One Indian celebrity recently got acquited from tow major crimes after around 12 years of fight. 5. Drinking wine or beer might be a crime in some states and in one state they want to give capital punishment for the same. 6. Eating beef might be a criminal offense.

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