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By "immigration ban", did you mean "90 immigration halt based on countries flagged as dangerous by the previous administration, that has been able to encourage

By "immigration ban", did you mean "90 immigration halt based on countries flagged as dangerous by the previous administration, that has been able to encourage Saudi Arabia to sign up for a Mid-East safe zone for refugees to help keep them closer to their homes and families[0] as well as encourage Pakistan to arrest a known terrorist who killed 100 Indians and has been free for 8 years[1]"? What Trump did was disruptive and unpopular, but its important to recognise that international politics isn't about whether one lady dies in hospital (which was fake [2]), its about whether hundreds of people die and if countries can work together. Trump has shown that he is not unwilling to play hardball with the international community if it won't start doing its part about cleaning up the mid-East. [0] - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-hughes/saudis-uae-predictably-ba_b_14486264.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-hughes/saudis-uae-pred... [1] - https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/pakistan-fearing-us-visa-ban-cracks-down-on-militant-group/2017/01/31/31412514-e7bb-11e6-903d-9b11ed7d8d2a_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/pakistan-f... [2] - https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/02/01/tale-of-an-iraqi-woman-dying-because-of-trump-travel-ban-unravels/?utm_term=.7a34251ad6f2 https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/02/0...

mikeash 10y ago
Banning existing visa holders isn't "playing hardball," it's just downright evil. A case might be made for shutting down new refugees from those countries, or even new non-refugee visas. But there's no sane case to be made for keeping out people with green cards.
- pdx 10y ago
  How about this? 'U.S. Visa Process Missed San Bernardino Wife’s Online Zealotry' [1] She had a visa, but perhaps she should have been further vetted, yes? [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/13/us/san-bernardino-attacks-us-visa-process-tashfeen-maliks-remarks-on-social-media-about-jihad-were-missed.html https://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/13/us/san-bernardino-attacks...
  - mikeash 10y ago
    Too bad she wouldn't have been affected by this ban in the first place. Edit: that dodges the main point. A better response would be, the other attacker was a US citizen, does that then make a good argument for banning US citizens from entry?
    - pdx 10y ago
      Agreed. Obviously it needs to be expanded. As is often mentioned, Saudi Arabia should be included because of 9/11. This woman was from Pakistan which suffers terrible internal terrorism problems. While the government of Pakistan is great, there is obviously a terrorism problem in that country. It seems like perhaps that would be grounds to make Pakistan another possible 'country of concern'.
      - mikeash 10y ago
        The government is great? Are you talking about the same Pakistan that sheltered Osama bin Laden for a decade and regularly sends terrorists into India?
        legostormtroopr 10y ago
        Yes, the same Pakistan that after harboring another terrorist for 8 years, quickly arrested him to prevent getting put on that same "countries of concern" list. The migration halt inconvenienced 100 or so people, but it has had a much bigger (almost positive) impact in ways people are ignoring so they can call Trump Hitler. He isn't exterminating people, he just said "look this area of the world is in crisis, we don't want that here so stop coming" and this is making everyone else pull up and start doing stuff. That seems like its doing some good, and isn't just "outright evil" as you called it.
        mikeash 10y ago
        Tens of thousands of people had their visas revoked. The only thing that mitigated it was the courts putting a stop to it quickly. Saying it only inconvenienced a hundred people is not only wrong, it wouldn't even be a defense of the order if it was right.
vorotato 10y ago
Well there was also the roughly 100000 who lost visas. This came out when the state of Virginia sued the administration. Nonpartisan news doesn't just mean facts that you agree with, but not facts you don't agree with.

mikeash 10y ago

Banning existing visa holders isn't "playing hardball," it's just downright evil. A case might be made for shutting down new refugees from those countries, or even new non-refugee visas. But there's no sane case to be made for keeping out people with green cards.

pdx 10y ago
How about this? 'U.S. Visa Process Missed San Bernardino Wife’s Online Zealotry' [1] She had a visa, but perhaps she should have been further vetted, yes? [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/13/us/san-bernardino-attacks-us-visa-process-tashfeen-maliks-remarks-on-social-media-about-jihad-were-missed.html https://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/13/us/san-bernardino-attacks...
- mikeash 10y ago
  Too bad she wouldn't have been affected by this ban in the first place. Edit: that dodges the main point. A better response would be, the other attacker was a US citizen, does that then make a good argument for banning US citizens from entry?
  - pdx 10y ago
    Agreed. Obviously it needs to be expanded. As is often mentioned, Saudi Arabia should be included because of 9/11. This woman was from Pakistan which suffers terrible internal terrorism problems. While the government of Pakistan is great, there is obviously a terrorism problem in that country. It seems like perhaps that would be grounds to make Pakistan another possible 'country of concern'.
    - mikeash 10y ago
      The government is great? Are you talking about the same Pakistan that sheltered Osama bin Laden for a decade and regularly sends terrorists into India?
      - legostormtroopr 10y ago
        Yes, the same Pakistan that after harboring another terrorist for 8 years, quickly arrested him to prevent getting put on that same "countries of concern" list. The migration halt inconvenienced 100 or so people, but it has had a much bigger (almost positive) impact in ways people are ignoring so they can call Trump Hitler. He isn't exterminating people, he just said "look this area of the world is in crisis, we don't want that here so stop coming" and this is making everyone else pull up and start doing stuff. That seems like its doing some good, and isn't just "outright evil" as you called it.
        mikeash 10y ago
        Tens of thousands of people had their visas revoked. The only thing that mitigated it was the courts putting a stop to it quickly. Saying it only inconvenienced a hundred people is not only wrong, it wouldn't even be a defense of the order if it was right.

vorotato 10y ago

Well there was also the roughly 100000 who lost visas. This came out when the state of Virginia sued the administration. Nonpartisan news doesn't just mean facts that you agree with, but not facts you don't agree with.