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Rosling started to participate in the migration debate in Sweden and made a classic error, borrowing is doctors degree and professor title into areas outside of

Rosling started to participate in the migration debate in Sweden and made a classic error, borrowing is doctors degree and professor title into areas outside of hes expertise. He made some claims about the schengen directive about what responsibilities of travel companies have that did not really hold water. Also, he repeatedly confused migrant with refugee(classic beginner mistake). However he started to nuance his critique later and came to unpopular opinion that the Swedish migration system is severely flawed. Government of Sweden uses funds that is budgeted to foreign aid to pay for immigration. Biggest receiver of Swedish foreign aid is a Swedish county (yes, true). Using foreign aid to fund immigration is something done both by the political parties of the right and the left. Rosling said that using foreign aid money for expenses at home is just wrong. Foreign aid should go to regions in distress. Funds for immigration should be taken from other less important areas and/or increased taxes. At this time almost only the Swedendemocrats(controversal anti-immigration party)criticized the migration system with basically the same argument, help migrants/refugees at their home region. Help many more at a cheaper cost (Sweden is expensive). At this time in Swedish politics all of the other political parties tried to boycott the Swedendemocrats with the infamous December treaty (basically a pact to block elected members of parlament from the Swedendemocrats to have a say in any question). To have a very famous and popular personality with a huge cult following say this during this time of Swedish history didn't go well at all with the establishment and he was less and less seen in public debates. Rosling was of course not a Swedendemocrat, he was a liberal (European definition) and probably did not agree much with Swedendemocrats in other issues except foreign aid. However in todays debate climate where you have to buy everyone's opinion wholesale this didn't work so well for him. Rest in peace Hans. You did fantastic work with your studies on poverty and global health. Farväl.

seppin 10y ago
> unpopular opinion that the Swedish migration system is severely flawed. This opinion seems fairly popular to me, do you have a source for it?
- fetbaffe 10y ago
  Clarification needed. It was unpopular then, but have starting become popular now. Late edit: to clarify, it was an unpopular opinion at the time Rosling said it, however if he had said it today, it probably have beeen a different reaction, the unpopular opinion have starting to become popular.
- fetbaffe 10y ago
  Rosling made his statements late September, early October 2015. This was about the same time December treaty was formally dissolved (not in practice though). At this time all political parties, except Sweden democrats, was de facto running on a Green party migration policy, inherited from former prime minister Reinfeldt (Moderates), who made an unholy alliance between the Right and the Greens to block any political influence from the Sweden democrats. True is that the Green party had previously criticized the policy of using foreign aid to fund immigration costs. However when they came into power fall 2014 they accepted it and made into law. It was not until a year later the Moderates starting to shift away from that policy. During this time in September 2015, current Prime minister, Löfven, had a some sort a political "jippo" (show/spectacle) as a tour around Sweden called "Sweden Together", with all the top government bosses, where they claimed Swedish culture does not exists at all and open border policy is the way to go. In a speech around the same time Prime minister Löfven stated that "My Europe does not build any walls". About one month later, in the middle of November, same prime minster Löfven introduced strict border controls. Discussion panel with Hans Rosling where he tells his biggest challenge was to explain to people that the leader of the Sweden Democrats have been correct all along with regards to foreign aid. Because remember for each migrant/refugee coming to Sweden, aid is removed for a few thousands abroad because it was using the same funds. So both prime minister Reinfeldt and Löfven declarations of humanity was not true. It is always unpopular to declare that emperor is naked. https://youtu.be/DF_VxARR-5A https://youtu.be/DF_VxARR-5A So yes, It was unpopular at the time Rosling said it, especially giving such a controversial party as Sweden democrats recognition.
  - Natanael_L 10y ago
    That wasn't quite what he meant. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13596940 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13596940
geon 10y ago
> probably did not agree much with Swedendemocrats in other issues except foreign aid. He did not agree with them about that either. SD used that rethoric, but their actual policy was to substantially lower foreign aid.
- fetbaffe 10y ago
  No, not really. You have to remember that the official foreign aid budget includes a 8 billion SEK post used by migration system. So when SD removes that 8 billion SEK it looks like net loss, however it was never used for foreign aid anyway. Also they add half of that amount to refugee help (UNHCR), so net plus is 4 billion SEK. Opposition parties base their proposed budgets on the official budget. If the official budget uses budgetary loop holes, it will look weird when a proposed budget corrects that post, if you don't know what it actually represents. Rosling have publicly stated that SD is correct on foreign aid. https://youtu.be/DF_VxARR-5A https://youtu.be/DF_VxARR-5A Rosling position how high the foreign aid should be, I don't know, however I do know that he was more of a pro-trade person. Remember, Rosling was European liberal, historically they are very pro-trade.
  - Natanael_L 10y ago
    You're missing the context. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13596940 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13596940
    - fetbaffe 10y ago
      Wrong. I never claimed that, thats why I explicitly wrote that they agreed on foreign aid, I never wrote that they agreed on migration in general. Rosling was pro migration. Please to the next time, read what I actually wrote and not just spam links without making an argument against what I wrote.

seppin 10y ago

> unpopular opinion that the Swedish migration system is severely flawed. This opinion seems fairly popular to me, do you have a source for it?

fetbaffe 10y ago
Clarification needed. It was unpopular then, but have starting become popular now. Late edit: to clarify, it was an unpopular opinion at the time Rosling said it, however if he had said it today, it probably have beeen a different reaction, the unpopular opinion have starting to become popular.
fetbaffe 10y ago
Rosling made his statements late September, early October 2015. This was about the same time December treaty was formally dissolved (not in practice though). At this time all political parties, except Sweden democrats, was de facto running on a Green party migration policy, inherited from former prime minister Reinfeldt (Moderates), who made an unholy alliance between the Right and the Greens to block any political influence from the Sweden democrats. True is that the Green party had previously criticized the policy of using foreign aid to fund immigration costs. However when they came into power fall 2014 they accepted it and made into law. It was not until a year later the Moderates starting to shift away from that policy. During this time in September 2015, current Prime minister, Löfven, had a some sort a political "jippo" (show/spectacle) as a tour around Sweden called "Sweden Together", with all the top government bosses, where they claimed Swedish culture does not exists at all and open border policy is the way to go. In a speech around the same time Prime minister Löfven stated that "My Europe does not build any walls". About one month later, in the middle of November, same prime minster Löfven introduced strict border controls. Discussion panel with Hans Rosling where he tells his biggest challenge was to explain to people that the leader of the Sweden Democrats have been correct all along with regards to foreign aid. Because remember for each migrant/refugee coming to Sweden, aid is removed for a few thousands abroad because it was using the same funds. So both prime minister Reinfeldt and Löfven declarations of humanity was not true. It is always unpopular to declare that emperor is naked. https://youtu.be/DF_VxARR-5A https://youtu.be/DF_VxARR-5A So yes, It was unpopular at the time Rosling said it, especially giving such a controversial party as Sweden democrats recognition.
- Natanael_L 10y ago
  That wasn't quite what he meant. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13596940 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13596940

geon 10y ago

> probably did not agree much with Swedendemocrats in other issues except foreign aid. He did not agree with them about that either. SD used that rethoric, but their actual policy was to substantially lower foreign aid.

fetbaffe 10y ago
No, not really. You have to remember that the official foreign aid budget includes a 8 billion SEK post used by migration system. So when SD removes that 8 billion SEK it looks like net loss, however it was never used for foreign aid anyway. Also they add half of that amount to refugee help (UNHCR), so net plus is 4 billion SEK. Opposition parties base their proposed budgets on the official budget. If the official budget uses budgetary loop holes, it will look weird when a proposed budget corrects that post, if you don't know what it actually represents. Rosling have publicly stated that SD is correct on foreign aid. https://youtu.be/DF_VxARR-5A https://youtu.be/DF_VxARR-5A Rosling position how high the foreign aid should be, I don't know, however I do know that he was more of a pro-trade person. Remember, Rosling was European liberal, historically they are very pro-trade.
- Natanael_L 10y ago
  You're missing the context. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13596940 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13596940
  - fetbaffe 10y ago
    Wrong. I never claimed that, thats why I explicitly wrote that they agreed on foreign aid, I never wrote that they agreed on migration in general. Rosling was pro migration. Please to the next time, read what I actually wrote and not just spam links without making an argument against what I wrote.