3 ms·

This guy is completely correct in his decision. If you want magic, use emacs, don't try to shoehorn it into vim. One of the reasons I left vim for kakoune is

This guy is completely correct in his decision. If you want magic, use emacs, don't try to shoehorn it into vim. One of the reasons I left vim for kakoune is that the impulse to turn vim into an IDE has led to scope creep. Vim feels huge these days, where kak does a much better job of deferring to other applications what they do well.

cat199 10y ago
Precisely why I use actual vi.. (well.. the nvi rewrite) Unfortunately many current 'vi' users have never actually seen the real thing, since most linuces simply alias vi to vim.. I realias it back to nvi because every new vim distro package has a new layer of auto indenting shiny garbage I have to unfiddle before approaching actual vi.. If I want fast text hacking, I use vi. If I want fancy stuff in the sweet spot between basic editor and ide, I use emacs, and if I want vi key bindings in that sweet spot, I turn on viper/evil. Done.
- cat199 10y ago
  ^ bitterness resulting from the conflation btw vim and vi :b
- cat199 10y ago
  also: keep your grubby hands off of my directory mtimes :D
- ktRolster 10y ago
  vim still opens in ~250 ms (or less) on my system. I'm not sure what problems it's causing you.
  - majkinetor 10y ago
    I have 100++ vim plugins and get around 500ms startup because of contextual loading by neobundle.
  - eikenberry 10y ago
    His problem were with the extensions vim made to vi and which ones were enabled by default with the packages he used. He never mentioned startup time.
- sevensor 10y ago
  I first partook of vi on an Irix box under the tutelage of a crusty graybeard. There are some things I do appreciate about vim in contrast. * Syntax highlighting * Unicode * Visual selection * Multiple buffers If I have a task for an editor that doesn't do those things and runs really fast, I usually reach for sed.
- pmoriarty 10y ago
  Speaking of needless complexity and bloat, I don't know why you stop at nvi and don't just use ed.
eikenberry 10y ago
Do you find the temptation of the plugins to strong to resist? Plain vim doesn't seem much more bloated than in the past. How is kakoune in practice? I've been eyeing it as well but was waiting for it to mature a bit.
- sevensor 10y ago
  > Do you find the temptation of the plugins to strong to resist? In a sense... I kept seeing vim plugins promoted as a way to make my life more awesome, but every time I tried one it was incredibly slow and I bounced back to vanilla vim. Not only that, but I kept getting burned every time I would try what seemed like simple customizations, like adding a few extra pieces of information to the status bar. After the Nth time I went to open a 50M file and had vim lock up on me, I reverted my .vimrc. > Plain vim doesn't seem much more bloated than in the past. It's not, and to be fair to vim you can build a pretty lean version of it if you want to. But the fact that all of the creaky vimscript machinery is there behind the scenes was starting to bother me. That alone wouldn't have been enough to bounce me to kak, but when I tried it, it immediately overwrote 20 years of vim muscle memory and I had a lot of trouble switching back. I had been using visual mode a lot in vim, and I always felt a little bad about it -- like if I'd been better at ex I wouldn't have had to use visual mode as much. Kak's editing paradigm is all about selections anyway, so I'm a lot more comfortable using it than I ever was with vim. > How is kakoune in practice? I've been eyeing it as well but was waiting for it to mature a bit. It's mature enough for me -- I've been building it from master every couple of days, and crashes are very unusual. The tmux integration is amazing. I always hated having vim splits inside of tmux panes inside of i3 windows, and now I don't.

cat199 10y ago

Precisely why I use actual vi.. (well.. the nvi rewrite) Unfortunately many current 'vi' users have never actually seen the real thing, since most linuces simply alias vi to vim.. I realias it back to nvi because every new vim distro package has a new layer of auto indenting shiny garbage I have to unfiddle before approaching actual vi.. If I want fast text hacking, I use vi. If I want fancy stuff in the sweet spot between basic editor and ide, I use emacs, and if I want vi key bindings in that sweet spot, I turn on viper/evil. Done.

cat199 10y ago
^ bitterness resulting from the conflation btw vim and vi :b
cat199 10y ago
also: keep your grubby hands off of my directory mtimes :D
ktRolster 10y ago
vim still opens in ~250 ms (or less) on my system. I'm not sure what problems it's causing you.
- majkinetor 10y ago
  I have 100++ vim plugins and get around 500ms startup because of contextual loading by neobundle.
- eikenberry 10y ago
  His problem were with the extensions vim made to vi and which ones were enabled by default with the packages he used. He never mentioned startup time.
sevensor 10y ago
I first partook of vi on an Irix box under the tutelage of a crusty graybeard. There are some things I do appreciate about vim in contrast. * Syntax highlighting * Unicode * Visual selection * Multiple buffers If I have a task for an editor that doesn't do those things and runs really fast, I usually reach for sed.
pmoriarty 10y ago
Speaking of needless complexity and bloat, I don't know why you stop at nvi and don't just use ed.

eikenberry 10y ago

Do you find the temptation of the plugins to strong to resist? Plain vim doesn't seem much more bloated than in the past. How is kakoune in practice? I've been eyeing it as well but was waiting for it to mature a bit.

sevensor 10y ago
> Do you find the temptation of the plugins to strong to resist? In a sense... I kept seeing vim plugins promoted as a way to make my life more awesome, but every time I tried one it was incredibly slow and I bounced back to vanilla vim. Not only that, but I kept getting burned every time I would try what seemed like simple customizations, like adding a few extra pieces of information to the status bar. After the Nth time I went to open a 50M file and had vim lock up on me, I reverted my .vimrc. > Plain vim doesn't seem much more bloated than in the past. It's not, and to be fair to vim you can build a pretty lean version of it if you want to. But the fact that all of the creaky vimscript machinery is there behind the scenes was starting to bother me. That alone wouldn't have been enough to bounce me to kak, but when I tried it, it immediately overwrote 20 years of vim muscle memory and I had a lot of trouble switching back. I had been using visual mode a lot in vim, and I always felt a little bad about it -- like if I'd been better at ex I wouldn't have had to use visual mode as much. Kak's editing paradigm is all about selections anyway, so I'm a lot more comfortable using it than I ever was with vim. > How is kakoune in practice? I've been eyeing it as well but was waiting for it to mature a bit. It's mature enough for me -- I've been building it from master every couple of days, and crashes are very unusual. The tmux integration is amazing. I always hated having vim splits inside of tmux panes inside of i3 windows, and now I don't.