8 ms·

I feel that the last round of attention Rosling got in Sweden gave the impression of a man determined to see ONLY good. But I do think this feeling got elevated

I feel that the last round of attention Rosling got in Sweden gave the impression of a man determined to see ONLY good. But I do think this feeling got elevated by everyone else parroting uncritically everything he said taking it as the utter truth, and proof that anyone not thinking the exact same were crazy idiots. I guess it also connects to my aversion for simplification and fear of how easy some people seem to take anything at face value. That being said I do not think my thoughts above lessens his work. I have deep respect for his vision and what he strived to achieve.

mongol 10y ago
My impression is he disappeared from the spotlight after a rise to fame. Never understood why. Maybe his illness? Or that some of his facts actually were inconvenient.
- simonbarker87 10y ago
  Out of interest which of his facts would be considered inconvenient? I'm familiar with his talks and work but only at a shallow level
  - sorenjan 10y ago
    He talked about how the gender balance in Swedish teens approached China's, because of the uneven immigration with a big male majority among immigrants aged 13-17. This was during a time when everyone that had anything critical to say about immigration was branded a racist by some in the media, and embraced as heroes by others. All he did was quote statistics. https://twitter.com/hansrosling/status/669678035654852608 https://twitter.com/hansrosling/status/669678035654852608 https://twitter.com/HansRosling/status/669673779359064064 https://twitter.com/HansRosling/status/669673779359064064
    - Karlozkiller 10y ago
      Yes, he was more or less discarded by the same people who previously hailed him as a 'God' when he was saying something positive about immigration. Interesting how people work sometimes.
      - seppin 10y ago
        People seek out info to confirm their beliefs, it's not a friendly world to other Hans Roslings out there trying to stand up for objective truth.
        throwaway234983 10y ago
        Which exactly what you people are doing in this thread. There's no evidence that any significant amount of people "turned" on him after these comments. That's just appeal to emotion. Hans Rosling very much didn't state "objective truth". Yes, there is a lot of truth to his speeches. But there's also a lot of visualizations, opinions and context. Saying that he "stood up for objective truth" is trying to confirm your own view that this is what matters. In reality if you study his story it's really idealism and activism (as a student, physician and teacher) that defined him.
  - fetbaffe 10y ago
    Rosling started to participate in the migration debate in Sweden and made a classic error, borrowing is doctors degree and professor title into areas outside of hes expertise. He made some claims about the schengen directive about what responsibilities of travel companies have that did not really hold water. Also, he repeatedly confused migrant with refugee(classic beginner mistake). However he started to nuance his critique later and came to unpopular opinion that the Swedish migration system is severely flawed. Government of Sweden uses funds that is budgeted to foreign aid to pay for immigration. Biggest receiver of Swedish foreign aid is a Swedish county (yes, true). Using foreign aid to fund immigration is something done both by the political parties of the right and the left. Rosling said that using foreign aid money for expenses at home is just wrong. Foreign aid should go to regions in distress. Funds for immigration should be taken from other less important areas and/or increased taxes. At this time almost only the Swedendemocrats(controversal anti-immigration party)criticized the migration system with basically the same argument, help migrants/refugees at their home region. Help many more at a cheaper cost (Sweden is expensive). At this time in Swedish politics all of the other political parties tried to boycott the Swedendemocrats with the infamous December treaty (basically a pact to block elected members of parlament from the Swedendemocrats to have a say in any question). To have a very famous and popular personality with a huge cult following say this during this time of Swedish history didn't go well at all with the establishment and he was less and less seen in public debates. Rosling was of course not a Swedendemocrat, he was a liberal (European definition) and probably did not agree much with Swedendemocrats in other issues except foreign aid. However in todays debate climate where you have to buy everyone's opinion wholesale this didn't work so well for him. Rest in peace Hans. You did fantastic work with your studies on poverty and global health. Farväl.
    - seppin 10y ago
      > unpopular opinion that the Swedish migration system is severely flawed. This opinion seems fairly popular to me, do you have a source for it?
      - fetbaffe 10y ago
        Clarification needed. It was unpopular then, but have starting become popular now. Late edit: to clarify, it was an unpopular opinion at the time Rosling said it, however if he had said it today, it probably have beeen a different reaction, the unpopular opinion have starting to become popular.
- kpil 10y ago
  I think lately his illness, but I think he peaked in popularity just before he stated his belief that it is multiple times (100 times?) more efficient to help refugees from the Middle East and Africa in their home countries or local region rather than he to help them in Sweden. This was a position held only by the nationalistic (and at least partially racist) political party Sverigedemokraterna, but I think he simply looked at the numbers and saw that the cost for refugees in Sweden is at least 5 (10?) times higher than UNHCR's total budget, while helping only 1-2% of the number of refugees compared to what UNHCR administers. If I remember correctly, he might have mentioned that at a big fundraiser supporting immigration which was a truth no one wanted to hear, as the "story" as told by media at the time conveyed that the middle east and Africa is inhabitable in general, without exception. He was remarkably absent in the news after that, almost like an embarrassed silence, but I guess he probably was diagnosed with his illness less than 6 months after that, so I might have been over-interpreting the coincidence. I might add that Sweden is a very small country with a very strong group-mentality in regards to political ideas and opinions ( and other areas, like fashion). Political triangulation would have arrived at almost unrestricted immigration at the time.
  - mistermann 10y ago
    > he stated his belief that it is multiple times (100 times?) more efficient to help refugees from the Middle East and Africa in their home countries or local region rather than he to help them in Sweden. Does anyone have a citation for this, I'm not able to find anything on google.
    - kpil 10y ago
      I don't know your Swedish skills, but here is a follow up interview: https://www.svd.se/man-hade-kunnat-salja-asylratten-for-20-000-spann/om/svenskt-flyktingmottagande https://www.svd.se/man-hade-kunnat-salja-asylratten-for-20-0... He quotes 10 SEK / day compared to 500 SEK per day. He is a bit defensive and says that he his not arguing against helping people in Sweden, just that Sweden as a consequence is NOT spending the money elsewhere.
      - 10y ago
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

mongol 10y ago

My impression is he disappeared from the spotlight after a rise to fame. Never understood why. Maybe his illness? Or that some of his facts actually were inconvenient.

simonbarker87 10y ago
Out of interest which of his facts would be considered inconvenient? I'm familiar with his talks and work but only at a shallow level
- sorenjan 10y ago
  He talked about how the gender balance in Swedish teens approached China's, because of the uneven immigration with a big male majority among immigrants aged 13-17. This was during a time when everyone that had anything critical to say about immigration was branded a racist by some in the media, and embraced as heroes by others. All he did was quote statistics. https://twitter.com/hansrosling/status/669678035654852608 https://twitter.com/hansrosling/status/669678035654852608 https://twitter.com/HansRosling/status/669673779359064064 https://twitter.com/HansRosling/status/669673779359064064
  - Karlozkiller 10y ago
    Yes, he was more or less discarded by the same people who previously hailed him as a 'God' when he was saying something positive about immigration. Interesting how people work sometimes.
    - seppin 10y ago
      People seek out info to confirm their beliefs, it's not a friendly world to other Hans Roslings out there trying to stand up for objective truth.
      - throwaway234983 10y ago
        Which exactly what you people are doing in this thread. There's no evidence that any significant amount of people "turned" on him after these comments. That's just appeal to emotion. Hans Rosling very much didn't state "objective truth". Yes, there is a lot of truth to his speeches. But there's also a lot of visualizations, opinions and context. Saying that he "stood up for objective truth" is trying to confirm your own view that this is what matters. In reality if you study his story it's really idealism and activism (as a student, physician and teacher) that defined him.
- fetbaffe 10y ago
  Rosling started to participate in the migration debate in Sweden and made a classic error, borrowing is doctors degree and professor title into areas outside of hes expertise. He made some claims about the schengen directive about what responsibilities of travel companies have that did not really hold water. Also, he repeatedly confused migrant with refugee(classic beginner mistake). However he started to nuance his critique later and came to unpopular opinion that the Swedish migration system is severely flawed. Government of Sweden uses funds that is budgeted to foreign aid to pay for immigration. Biggest receiver of Swedish foreign aid is a Swedish county (yes, true). Using foreign aid to fund immigration is something done both by the political parties of the right and the left. Rosling said that using foreign aid money for expenses at home is just wrong. Foreign aid should go to regions in distress. Funds for immigration should be taken from other less important areas and/or increased taxes. At this time almost only the Swedendemocrats(controversal anti-immigration party)criticized the migration system with basically the same argument, help migrants/refugees at their home region. Help many more at a cheaper cost (Sweden is expensive). At this time in Swedish politics all of the other political parties tried to boycott the Swedendemocrats with the infamous December treaty (basically a pact to block elected members of parlament from the Swedendemocrats to have a say in any question). To have a very famous and popular personality with a huge cult following say this during this time of Swedish history didn't go well at all with the establishment and he was less and less seen in public debates. Rosling was of course not a Swedendemocrat, he was a liberal (European definition) and probably did not agree much with Swedendemocrats in other issues except foreign aid. However in todays debate climate where you have to buy everyone's opinion wholesale this didn't work so well for him. Rest in peace Hans. You did fantastic work with your studies on poverty and global health. Farväl.
  - seppin 10y ago
    > unpopular opinion that the Swedish migration system is severely flawed. This opinion seems fairly popular to me, do you have a source for it?
    - fetbaffe 10y ago
      Clarification needed. It was unpopular then, but have starting become popular now. Late edit: to clarify, it was an unpopular opinion at the time Rosling said it, however if he had said it today, it probably have beeen a different reaction, the unpopular opinion have starting to become popular.
kpil 10y ago
I think lately his illness, but I think he peaked in popularity just before he stated his belief that it is multiple times (100 times?) more efficient to help refugees from the Middle East and Africa in their home countries or local region rather than he to help them in Sweden. This was a position held only by the nationalistic (and at least partially racist) political party Sverigedemokraterna, but I think he simply looked at the numbers and saw that the cost for refugees in Sweden is at least 5 (10?) times higher than UNHCR's total budget, while helping only 1-2% of the number of refugees compared to what UNHCR administers. If I remember correctly, he might have mentioned that at a big fundraiser supporting immigration which was a truth no one wanted to hear, as the "story" as told by media at the time conveyed that the middle east and Africa is inhabitable in general, without exception. He was remarkably absent in the news after that, almost like an embarrassed silence, but I guess he probably was diagnosed with his illness less than 6 months after that, so I might have been over-interpreting the coincidence. I might add that Sweden is a very small country with a very strong group-mentality in regards to political ideas and opinions ( and other areas, like fashion). Political triangulation would have arrived at almost unrestricted immigration at the time.
- mistermann 10y ago
  > he stated his belief that it is multiple times (100 times?) more efficient to help refugees from the Middle East and Africa in their home countries or local region rather than he to help them in Sweden. Does anyone have a citation for this, I'm not able to find anything on google.
  - kpil 10y ago
    I don't know your Swedish skills, but here is a follow up interview: https://www.svd.se/man-hade-kunnat-salja-asylratten-for-20-000-spann/om/svenskt-flyktingmottagande https://www.svd.se/man-hade-kunnat-salja-asylratten-for-20-0... He quotes 10 SEK / day compared to 500 SEK per day. He is a bit defensive and says that he his not arguing against helping people in Sweden, just that Sweden as a consequence is NOT spending the money elsewhere.
    - 10y ago

deleted 10y ago

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