3 ms·

Pfft... I was once asked to build an R-tree (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-tree https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-tree). When I was young and eager to please I

by jcadam 10y ago

Pfft... I was once asked to build an R-tree (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-tree https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-tree). When I was young and eager to please I would put up with this sort of thing. In fact, I used to think there must be something wrong with me, that I was a bad programmer for not having every data structure and sorting algorithm perfectly memorized at all times. Now that I'm starting to get old and realize it's all BS, if you ask me to write quicksort on a whiteboard I'm going to roll my eyes and walk out.

y0y 10y ago
Yeah, I'm getting to be the same. I'll happily talk to you about various algorithms with as much technical depth as I can muster given the algorithm of choice, but I've no interest in coding on your whiteboard. If you can't glean my level of understanding from a conversation, that's your problem. If you want to know if I can code, that's what my github is for.
malux85 10y ago
I woudln't roll my eyes and walk out, but I would ask them when the last time somebody in their organization implemented an R-Tree from scratch, then if they actaully answered the question, they better have a really good answer for the next question: why not use a mature, well tested, perforamnce enhanced library? When they are unable to answer "When was the last time someone implemented one from scratch" then I ask them "Why are you asking candidates questions that are not relevant to the job? Wouldn't it be better to evaluate the candidates against the role they will fill?" Then if they give B.S. answers you can politely say "Thanks, but no thanks" and then go - I try and dig a bit deeper to establish whether there was a really cool and interesting story about why they had to implement one themselves, or whether they're just full of rubbish and literally have no idea what they're doing
- mrfusion 10y ago
  I asked that once and the reply was "we don't use freeware here". As their reason for coding everything themselves ...
bhouston 10y ago
> if you ask me to write quicksort on a whiteboard I'm going to roll my eyes and walk out. Asking people to code a sort in an interview can be very useful as it shows whether they can actually code or not. I've had people write horrible code in interviews many times and that is a major indicator that I shouldn't hire them for a coding position.
- bryanrasmussen 10y ago
  or it's an indicator that they get flustered coding in front of people. I definitely underperform when pair coding, coding on a whiteboard instead of a computer I'm familiar with? Probably not my best work.
  - jcadam 10y ago
    I was such a nervous wreck during my first technical interview that I couldn't remember how to write a loop. Seriously. "I need to repeat this sequence of operations an indeterminate number of times... if only there were some programming construct that could help me out here..." So I reached back to my Apple II BASIC days and whipped out the trusty GOTO. The look on the interviewer's face was priceless.
    - Declanomous 10y ago
      I've forgotten how to define a new variable before, as well as legal variable types. I've even forgotten how to write a select statement in SQL before, which is horrifyingly embarrassing in retrospect. I'm not bad at pair programming, but I seem to forget everything I know when asked to recall it in novel contexts. I'm sure I could have typed out a legal select statement if I had a keyboard, but writing it on a whiteboard in front of 4 people I've never met in a location I've never been to before made me forget everything I knew. It really doesn't get much worse than forgetting how to write a select statement.
  - bhouston 10y ago
    > or it's an indicator that they get flustered coding in front of people. I definitely underperform when pair coding, coding on a whiteboard instead of a computer I'm familiar with? Probably not my best work. One needs to evaluate people. I would prefer to evaluate people using a metric close to what is required in the job -- coding. If people have issues that they can not be evaluated properly, then what I am supposed to do? Just hire anyone no matter how they do? Of course coding isn't the only metric but it is one of a couple. If you write an algorithm that has indexing errors or no stopping condition or just does't work, it isn't a good thing. I do rely on coding on whiteboards or paper a lot more when it is someone new in their career and do not have many past accomplishments to point to.
0x54MUR41 10y ago
> ...realize it's all BS What does BS stand for?
- Gargol 10y ago
  BS stands for - Bull St

by jcadam 10y ago

y0y 10y ago

Yeah, I'm getting to be the same. I'll happily talk to you about various algorithms with as much technical depth as I can muster given the algorithm of choice, but I've no interest in coding on your whiteboard. If you can't glean my level of understanding from a conversation, that's your problem. If you want to know if I can code, that's what my github is for.

malux85 10y ago

I woudln't roll my eyes and walk out, but I would ask them when the last time somebody in their organization implemented an R-Tree from scratch, then if they actaully answered the question, they better have a really good answer for the next question: why not use a mature, well tested, perforamnce enhanced library? When they are unable to answer "When was the last time someone implemented one from scratch" then I ask them "Why are you asking candidates questions that are not relevant to the job? Wouldn't it be better to evaluate the candidates against the role they will fill?" Then if they give B.S. answers you can politely say "Thanks, but no thanks" and then go - I try and dig a bit deeper to establish whether there was a really cool and interesting story about why they had to implement one themselves, or whether they're just full of rubbish and literally have no idea what they're doing

mrfusion 10y ago
I asked that once and the reply was "we don't use freeware here". As their reason for coding everything themselves ...

bhouston 10y ago

> if you ask me to write quicksort on a whiteboard I'm going to roll my eyes and walk out. Asking people to code a sort in an interview can be very useful as it shows whether they can actually code or not. I've had people write horrible code in interviews many times and that is a major indicator that I shouldn't hire them for a coding position.

bryanrasmussen 10y ago
or it's an indicator that they get flustered coding in front of people. I definitely underperform when pair coding, coding on a whiteboard instead of a computer I'm familiar with? Probably not my best work.
- jcadam 10y ago
  I was such a nervous wreck during my first technical interview that I couldn't remember how to write a loop. Seriously. "I need to repeat this sequence of operations an indeterminate number of times... if only there were some programming construct that could help me out here..." So I reached back to my Apple II BASIC days and whipped out the trusty GOTO. The look on the interviewer's face was priceless.
  - Declanomous 10y ago
    I've forgotten how to define a new variable before, as well as legal variable types. I've even forgotten how to write a select statement in SQL before, which is horrifyingly embarrassing in retrospect. I'm not bad at pair programming, but I seem to forget everything I know when asked to recall it in novel contexts. I'm sure I could have typed out a legal select statement if I had a keyboard, but writing it on a whiteboard in front of 4 people I've never met in a location I've never been to before made me forget everything I knew. It really doesn't get much worse than forgetting how to write a select statement.
- bhouston 10y ago
  > or it's an indicator that they get flustered coding in front of people. I definitely underperform when pair coding, coding on a whiteboard instead of a computer I'm familiar with? Probably not my best work. One needs to evaluate people. I would prefer to evaluate people using a metric close to what is required in the job -- coding. If people have issues that they can not be evaluated properly, then what I am supposed to do? Just hire anyone no matter how they do? Of course coding isn't the only metric but it is one of a couple. If you write an algorithm that has indexing errors or no stopping condition or just does't work, it isn't a good thing. I do rely on coding on whiteboards or paper a lot more when it is someone new in their career and do not have many past accomplishments to point to.

0x54MUR41 10y ago

> ...realize it's all BS What does BS stand for?

Gargol 10y ago
BS stands for - Bull St