8 ms·

It is always a bit awkward to stop a protest once you achieved your primary goal. You are now a lot of people in the streets, with a lot of power, the governme

It is always a bit awkward to stop a protest once you achieved your primary goal. You are now a lot of people in the streets, with a lot of power, the government backs off. Should you ask for more or stick to the original requests that are now satisfied?

Sylphine 10y ago
Our president Claus Iohannis has started a war with the winning party PSD. He encouraged people to protest against PSD and now supporters of PSD are protesting against Iohannis. I'm ashamed by my country but hey it could be worse.
- ropiku 10y ago
  I wouldn't put it like that. He encouraged anti-corruption protests, it's just that PSD decided to support corruption. Nobody is protesting the election results. The people continue to protest the current government because they showed themselves to be untrustworthy. They backed down right now under pressure but who says they won't give another executive order in the middle of the night when no one is looking ?
  - Sylphine 10y ago
    "He encouraged anti-corruption protests." This executive order was talked about with ECHR and Italy had a similar project this has nothing to do with corruption. source: http://www.echr.coe.int/Documents/Speech_20170127_Raimondi_JY_ENG.pdf http://www.echr.coe.int/Documents/Speech_20170127_Raimondi_J... http://www.reuters.com/article/us-italy-drugs-law-idUSBREA1B1FF20140212 http://www.reuters.com/article/us-italy-drugs-law-idUSBREA1B... "they won't give another executive order in the middle of the night when no one is looking ?" It has become self evident to me that we need a Donald Trump so maybe our fellow Romanians get back into reality. EDIT: P.S. The echr source talks about the problem but discussion have taken place. Also i it find a bit alarming that the case creation rate has increased so unpredictably. I quote "Firstly, with regard to Hungary and Romania, for which the number of cases increased by 95% and 108% respectively in 2016". What does this suggest? I remaind you that 2016 was a year in which Iohannis's technocratic government ruled
    - rootlocus 10y ago
      Are you comparing abuse of political power and stealing public money with "selling, cultivating or possessing cannabis"? Because, if we want to relax jail sentences, corrupt politicians should not be the first ones to benefit from it.
    - adrian_b 10y ago
      The increase in the number of ECHR cases during a year suggests absolutely nothing about the government of that year. Almost all such cases are about trials that have a long history. Trials that have begun 10 years or more ago and that are not solved yet, are not uncommon. So whatever abuses are the subject of complaints, they might be the fault of a government of many years ago. As ECHR is reached after exhausting all other means, it is almost impossible for an ECHR case to refer to an abuse happened during the same year.
    - petre 10y ago
      Italy. Another country previously ran by the Mafia.
- lexama 10y ago
  The protests are not about president Klaus Iohannis, are about how the government tried to steal in the middle of the night, like thieves after they said they wouldn't pass that law. Of course the president is biased toward a side, but he didn't send people out on the streets. People were already there and some of them weren't even keen on the president.
- cmarinas 10y ago
  Yeah, right... The government passes an emergency ordinance quietly during the night, aimed at saving the party's leader, and you blame the president. IOW, people shouldn't think for themselves because there are leaders elected to do just that. What I'm really ashamed of is that there are still many Romanian citizens who think that leaders are allowed to steal as long as they give a little bit in return (for those who were old enough in December '89, any similarities to "give them another hundred lei..."?).
  - CrystalLangUser 10y ago
    My parents fled Romania. What is the significance of that phrase?
    - garrettgrimsley 10y ago
      During Ceaușescu's final speech he offered to raise the salary of workers by 200 lei per month to placate the rebelling crowd. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceau%C8%99escu%27s_final_speech https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceau%C8%99escu%27s_final_speec...
      - petre 10y ago
        Only you had nothing to buy with 200 lei aside from vinegar and bean jars or maybe save for a Dacia for which you'd have no gas because it was rationalized.
- chimen 10y ago
  Funny that you're doing politics on the internet but fail to write your president's name correctly. The president has nothing to do with the issue discussed by the way.
  - sysdyne 10y ago
    The so called president deserves only a impeachment and while you are at judging other people read the ordinance. http://www.dreptonline.ro/legislatie/oug_13_2017_modificare_lege_286_2009_codul_penal_lege_135_2010_codul_procedura_penala.php http://www.dreptonline.ro/legislatie/oug_13_2017_modificare_...
    - chimen 10y ago
      Don't copy paste. This is the 2nd time you answer me with this link and same words. Are you at work?
- stefantalpalaru 10y ago
  > Claus Iohannis The most ridiculous adaptation I've seen so far. The guy's name is German and it was originally spelled "Klaus Johannis". During the presidential election, he changed his last name's spelling to "Iohannis" to make it seem more Romanian, even though the German minority in Romania has always been held in high regard (yes, positive ethnic stereotypes do exist). I guess the next step would be "Claudiu Ionescu" :-)
  - nonick 10y ago
    Actually, his name was always Iohannis, because in the communist period (when he was born) the state would try and romanize all foreign names. I know quite a few Hungarians in my home town who were given untranslatable Hungarian names just to avoid having their name translated to Romanian. The same happened during the Austro-Hungarian rule of Transylvania (<1918) but, of course, the other way round. Back to the President, indeed he used Johannis before the election because his family has always been called like that. Since going into the election campaign he switched to the official spelling that would appear on the ballot and in all the documents that he signs.
RodericDay 10y ago
Is this really awkward in practice, or are you imagining so as an observer trying to make sense of protestors?
- Sylphine 10y ago
  I think its awkward in both positions but the protesters have objectives. The "Victoria" protesters want to see the government formed in January to resign and the "Cotrocenii" protesters want for President Claus Iohannis to resign.
  - rocgf 10y ago
    Yeah, but I think you left out the fact that, at its peak, there were 300k "Victoria" protesters and 3k "Cotroceni" protesters. The "Cotroceni" protests are a joke.
    - Sylphine 10y ago
      You seem to forget that we live in a representative democracy. When the government was formed (PSD + ALDE) in January it won by a majority and there are no reasonable facts on why the government should resign. I want to remind you that when the "Colective" horror happened the government resigned (PSD) but when a similar incident happened in the USA the president or any government official didn't resign. If you think that we are more advanced than the american democracy then you sir ignore certain facts. source:http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2016/12/04/oakland-warehouse-fire-ghost-ship/94950350/ http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2016/12/04/oakland...
      - oblio 10y ago
        If one of the first laws you try to pass is to legalize bribes lower than $50k to save your party leader and his cronies, it means that you deceived your voters.
        sirrocco 10y ago
fa17 10y ago
Right, there was a protest in Chennai not a month ago to lift ban on Jallikattu(a local sport) and the local Govt passes a law in a week to allow this. but the protesters refused to leave the place(beach) after all the demands were met and eventually it got ugly, a police station was set on fire and the Govt had to use force.
- baby 10y ago
  > Jallikattu (a local sport) Holy shit, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_bOtexFNXo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_bOtexFNXo > a Bos indicus bull is released into a crowd of people and multiple human participants attempt to grab the large hump of the bull with both arms and hang on to it while the bull attempts to escape. Participants hold the hump for as long as possible, attempting to bring the bull to a stop. In some cases, participants must ride long enough to remove flags on the bull's horns. I love learning about new sports like that. More: * Zurkhaneh, weird workout in Iran https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTHvXX-Qicw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTHvXX-Qicw * Kabaddi, amazing game where you have to make the other fall :D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSnP9z99I9M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSnP9z99I9M
  - glenneroo 10y ago
    Don't forget about Bo Taoshi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4OV-2uTFeg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4OV-2uTFeg
  - antognini 10y ago
    There was a nice article about this in the Economist a week ago: http://www.economist.com/news/asia/21715686-why-indian-judges-must-bow-bovines-ugly-row-about-sacred-cows http://www.economist.com/news/asia/21715686-why-indian-judge...
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- laughingman2 10y ago
  But there were few police men burning vehicles which they blatantly deny as being "morphed". Seems like the govt wanted to smear bad name on the protest
lifty 10y ago
While the original reason that kickstarted the protest was a shady law passed through an emergency ordinance (not sure if that's an English term), the problem itself is much bigger. People are dissatisfied that the new government is trying to reduce the effectiveness of certain anti corruption institutions, which have aggressively processed corruption cases for the past couple of years. This has caused a lot of desperation among public sector workers, from low level counsel positions up to the highest parts of the government. I see this as a potential inflection point for Romania and I am curious which way it goes.
rootlocus 10y ago
This sounds silly to me. Is it awkward to seek medical treatment after numbing the pain? Is it awkward to want the cure for the disease after treating a symptom? To the people, achieving the primary goal is like stopping the bleeding from a gunshot wound. It's the first step in preventing something worse from happening, but it's not the last step in the fight against corruption. The bullet is still inside.
GoToRO 10y ago
Primary goal was not achieved. They patched the original buggy law with another buggy law. When the second law will be invalidated, the first will take effect.

Sylphine 10y ago

Our president Claus Iohannis has started a war with the winning party PSD. He encouraged people to protest against PSD and now supporters of PSD are protesting against Iohannis. I'm ashamed by my country but hey it could be worse.

ropiku 10y ago
I wouldn't put it like that. He encouraged anti-corruption protests, it's just that PSD decided to support corruption. Nobody is protesting the election results. The people continue to protest the current government because they showed themselves to be untrustworthy. They backed down right now under pressure but who says they won't give another executive order in the middle of the night when no one is looking ?
- Sylphine 10y ago
  "He encouraged anti-corruption protests." This executive order was talked about with ECHR and Italy had a similar project this has nothing to do with corruption. source: http://www.echr.coe.int/Documents/Speech_20170127_Raimondi_JY_ENG.pdf http://www.echr.coe.int/Documents/Speech_20170127_Raimondi_J... http://www.reuters.com/article/us-italy-drugs-law-idUSBREA1B1FF20140212 http://www.reuters.com/article/us-italy-drugs-law-idUSBREA1B... "they won't give another executive order in the middle of the night when no one is looking ?" It has become self evident to me that we need a Donald Trump so maybe our fellow Romanians get back into reality. EDIT: P.S. The echr source talks about the problem but discussion have taken place. Also i it find a bit alarming that the case creation rate has increased so unpredictably. I quote "Firstly, with regard to Hungary and Romania, for which the number of cases increased by 95% and 108% respectively in 2016". What does this suggest? I remaind you that 2016 was a year in which Iohannis's technocratic government ruled
  - rootlocus 10y ago
    Are you comparing abuse of political power and stealing public money with "selling, cultivating or possessing cannabis"? Because, if we want to relax jail sentences, corrupt politicians should not be the first ones to benefit from it.
  - adrian_b 10y ago
    The increase in the number of ECHR cases during a year suggests absolutely nothing about the government of that year. Almost all such cases are about trials that have a long history. Trials that have begun 10 years or more ago and that are not solved yet, are not uncommon. So whatever abuses are the subject of complaints, they might be the fault of a government of many years ago. As ECHR is reached after exhausting all other means, it is almost impossible for an ECHR case to refer to an abuse happened during the same year.
  - petre 10y ago
    Italy. Another country previously ran by the Mafia.
lexama 10y ago
The protests are not about president Klaus Iohannis, are about how the government tried to steal in the middle of the night, like thieves after they said they wouldn't pass that law. Of course the president is biased toward a side, but he didn't send people out on the streets. People were already there and some of them weren't even keen on the president.
cmarinas 10y ago
Yeah, right... The government passes an emergency ordinance quietly during the night, aimed at saving the party's leader, and you blame the president. IOW, people shouldn't think for themselves because there are leaders elected to do just that. What I'm really ashamed of is that there are still many Romanian citizens who think that leaders are allowed to steal as long as they give a little bit in return (for those who were old enough in December '89, any similarities to "give them another hundred lei..."?).
- CrystalLangUser 10y ago
  My parents fled Romania. What is the significance of that phrase?
  - garrettgrimsley 10y ago
    During Ceaușescu's final speech he offered to raise the salary of workers by 200 lei per month to placate the rebelling crowd. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceau%C8%99escu%27s_final_speech https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceau%C8%99escu%27s_final_speec...
    - petre 10y ago
      Only you had nothing to buy with 200 lei aside from vinegar and bean jars or maybe save for a Dacia for which you'd have no gas because it was rationalized.
chimen 10y ago
Funny that you're doing politics on the internet but fail to write your president's name correctly. The president has nothing to do with the issue discussed by the way.
- sysdyne 10y ago
  The so called president deserves only a impeachment and while you are at judging other people read the ordinance. http://www.dreptonline.ro/legislatie/oug_13_2017_modificare_lege_286_2009_codul_penal_lege_135_2010_codul_procedura_penala.php http://www.dreptonline.ro/legislatie/oug_13_2017_modificare_...
  - chimen 10y ago
    Don't copy paste. This is the 2nd time you answer me with this link and same words. Are you at work?
stefantalpalaru 10y ago
> Claus Iohannis The most ridiculous adaptation I've seen so far. The guy's name is German and it was originally spelled "Klaus Johannis". During the presidential election, he changed his last name's spelling to "Iohannis" to make it seem more Romanian, even though the German minority in Romania has always been held in high regard (yes, positive ethnic stereotypes do exist). I guess the next step would be "Claudiu Ionescu" :-)
- nonick 10y ago
  Actually, his name was always Iohannis, because in the communist period (when he was born) the state would try and romanize all foreign names. I know quite a few Hungarians in my home town who were given untranslatable Hungarian names just to avoid having their name translated to Romanian. The same happened during the Austro-Hungarian rule of Transylvania (<1918) but, of course, the other way round. Back to the President, indeed he used Johannis before the election because his family has always been called like that. Since going into the election campaign he switched to the official spelling that would appear on the ballot and in all the documents that he signs.

RodericDay 10y ago

Is this really awkward in practice, or are you imagining so as an observer trying to make sense of protestors?

Sylphine 10y ago
I think its awkward in both positions but the protesters have objectives. The "Victoria" protesters want to see the government formed in January to resign and the "Cotrocenii" protesters want for President Claus Iohannis to resign.
- rocgf 10y ago
  Yeah, but I think you left out the fact that, at its peak, there were 300k "Victoria" protesters and 3k "Cotroceni" protesters. The "Cotroceni" protests are a joke.
  - Sylphine 10y ago
    You seem to forget that we live in a representative democracy. When the government was formed (PSD + ALDE) in January it won by a majority and there are no reasonable facts on why the government should resign. I want to remind you that when the "Colective" horror happened the government resigned (PSD) but when a similar incident happened in the USA the president or any government official didn't resign. If you think that we are more advanced than the american democracy then you sir ignore certain facts. source:http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2016/12/04/oakland-warehouse-fire-ghost-ship/94950350/ http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2016/12/04/oakland...
    - oblio 10y ago
      If one of the first laws you try to pass is to legalize bribes lower than $50k to save your party leader and his cronies, it means that you deceived your voters.
      - sirrocco 10y ago

fa17 10y ago

Right, there was a protest in Chennai not a month ago to lift ban on Jallikattu(a local sport) and the local Govt passes a law in a week to allow this. but the protesters refused to leave the place(beach) after all the demands were met and eventually it got ugly, a police station was set on fire and the Govt had to use force.

baby 10y ago
> Jallikattu (a local sport) Holy shit, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_bOtexFNXo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_bOtexFNXo > a Bos indicus bull is released into a crowd of people and multiple human participants attempt to grab the large hump of the bull with both arms and hang on to it while the bull attempts to escape. Participants hold the hump for as long as possible, attempting to bring the bull to a stop. In some cases, participants must ride long enough to remove flags on the bull's horns. I love learning about new sports like that. More: * Zurkhaneh, weird workout in Iran https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTHvXX-Qicw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTHvXX-Qicw * Kabaddi, amazing game where you have to make the other fall :D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSnP9z99I9M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSnP9z99I9M
- glenneroo 10y ago
  Don't forget about Bo Taoshi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4OV-2uTFeg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4OV-2uTFeg
- antognini 10y ago
  There was a nice article about this in the Economist a week ago: http://www.economist.com/news/asia/21715686-why-indian-judges-must-bow-bovines-ugly-row-about-sacred-cows http://www.economist.com/news/asia/21715686-why-indian-judge...
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
laughingman2 10y ago
But there were few police men burning vehicles which they blatantly deny as being "morphed". Seems like the govt wanted to smear bad name on the protest

lifty 10y ago

While the original reason that kickstarted the protest was a shady law passed through an emergency ordinance (not sure if that's an English term), the problem itself is much bigger. People are dissatisfied that the new government is trying to reduce the effectiveness of certain anti corruption institutions, which have aggressively processed corruption cases for the past couple of years. This has caused a lot of desperation among public sector workers, from low level counsel positions up to the highest parts of the government. I see this as a potential inflection point for Romania and I am curious which way it goes.

rootlocus 10y ago

This sounds silly to me. Is it awkward to seek medical treatment after numbing the pain? Is it awkward to want the cure for the disease after treating a symptom? To the people, achieving the primary goal is like stopping the bleeding from a gunshot wound. It's the first step in preventing something worse from happening, but it's not the last step in the fight against corruption. The bullet is still inside.

GoToRO 10y ago

Primary goal was not achieved. They patched the original buggy law with another buggy law. When the second law will be invalidated, the first will take effect.