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> The Christian God is not a 'bearded buy in the sky' (even though he is often presented as such). He's 'unknowable' and completely transcends our understanding

by acqq 10y ago

> The Christian God is not a 'bearded buy in the sky' (even though he is often presented as such). He's 'unknowable' and completely transcends our understanding. 'I am that I am'. This is not like the Greek gods who all have very tangible attributes and are mostly interested in human like things 'I am that I am' was said by Jesus who ate, defecated and did everything else like any other human being, and he is considered being the God by Christians, so he's very much like the Greek gods walking around the Earth all the time, eating with humans. Read the Odyssey. Even more so, the act of Jesus' mother being impregnated by the God is something that Zeus did in many many occasions (producing god-children with the human mothers) and was retold for centuries before Christ exactly in the areas where the Christian myths started to spread. The impregnation story is obviously an one-upmanship one (well my God is a son of God too!) and not present in the earliest Gospel. Once that simple one-upmanship trick got to be popular, there was a need to explain the logic of God producing a child who's still himself while not directly being involved in the sex act (which would be too dirty for the God), and the Trinity was invented: the God is at the same time the father, the son and the holy ghost, the third one, the most 'transcendental' one, the only one being involved in the sex act. Learning about the ancient Greek gods helps making sense of a lot of weird Jewish and Christian stories. Also learning about the Mesopotamian and Egyptian gods and stories.

edblarney 10y ago
"'I am that I am' was said by Jesus who ate, defecated and everything else like any human being, and he is considered God by Christians, so he's very much like Greek gods walking around the Earth all the time. " First - "I am that I am" is God - to Moses. Not Jesus. And by the way - that very line betrays your argument: the Monotheistic 'God' is nothing like Zeus, who would never say something so abstract :). Zeus was knowable. 'God' is a metaphysical concept. And no - Jesus not 'like the Greek gods because he 'ate and defecated'. Zeus was a powerful war lord, who ran around screwing women, got pissed off at others, demanded offerings - he was not a moral example, nor did he demand morality. He was like a superhuman Chieftain. Zeus was the Donald Trump of religions. (Bad joke). Jesus wanted his followers to 'have faith and love one another' - and not necessarily make offerings, worry about money, or get too involved in rituals. All are equal before God, and are judged for their actions - not their power, money or social status. Yada, yada, yada. Nothing like the Zeusinator. There are really few if any theological similarities between Zeus and Jesus. They are 'far apart' on the religion scale :) "earning about the ancient Greek gods helps explaining a lot of weird Jewish and Christian stories. Also learning about the Mesopotamian and Egyptian gods and stories." Yes - some bits of narrative are similar, and the 'nativity' bit is a rather common theme in the era. But it's not about the 'magic tricks' :). Put another way: Greek pantheism is about the Greek Gods. Christianity is about the teachings of a man (or son of god, or god incarnate, depending on ...) And finally - a lot of formal Christian groups that do not believe Jesus was a God. That's been a big debate since the beginning i.e. Nicaeae etc. :)
- acqq 10y ago
  "I am" is said by Jesus seven times in the Gospel of John, that's more important for a Christian: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_am_(biblical_term) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_am_(biblical_term) > There are really few if any theological similarities between Zeus and Jesus. They are 'far apart' on the religion scale To properly compare you have to compare Yahweh, the god from Jewish scriptures (a.k.a the Old Testament for the Christians, for who Yahweh is a father-god) and Zeus, the Greek father god. Both are hungry for the animal sacrifices. The God personally visits Abraham who prepares a meal (freshly baked bread and flesh) for him and the God eats, under a tree. Not "transcendent" at all. For their children: Jesus, the son of the God and a human mother, and Heracles, the son of the God and a human mother. Heracles rises to Olympus as he dies, unlike the other mortals, just like Jesus rises to heaven. And both Jesus and Heracles visit Hades (Hell) only to get out of there: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrowing_of_Hell https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrowing_of_Hell Learning about the Greek gods is really enlightened. By the way, the name of the Jewish father-god is Yahweh, and "Jesus" comes from the Greek "Iesous" rendition of a Hebrew common name "Yehoshua" (Joshua) which means "Yahweh is salvation." Also a convenient element for the later "the father is also a son" idea. Only, there were a lot of Joshuas living around for more centuries.
  - edblarney 10y ago
    "I am" - and - "I am that I am" are two different things. :) And yes, I agree - 'Yahweh' from Jewish antiquity is more comparable to Zeus, for sure. (Though Yahweh evolved a lot over time, and was something else by the time Jesus came) But you were comparing Jesus to Zeus. Those two are not very comparable. Zeus belongs in the Egyptian/Roman/Mesopotamian camp. a little bit like Yahweh. Jesus belongs more with Buddha, and Mohammed. The former were 'myths to believe that explained things', the later were 'historical figures' and 'teachers' of 'how we ought to be as moral and spiritual beings'. These are very different eras, different kinds of religions, is my whole point. FYI - that's why in 2016 there are tons of Buddhists, Muslims and Christians, and basically zero followers of 'Zeus'. Which further validates 'how different Jesus is to Zeus & Co'
    - 10y ago

by acqq 10y ago

edblarney 10y ago

"'I am that I am' was said by Jesus who ate, defecated and everything else like any human being, and he is considered God by Christians, so he's very much like Greek gods walking around the Earth all the time. " First - "I am that I am" is God - to Moses. Not Jesus. And by the way - that very line betrays your argument: the Monotheistic 'God' is nothing like Zeus, who would never say something so abstract :). Zeus was knowable. 'God' is a metaphysical concept. And no - Jesus not 'like the Greek gods because he 'ate and defecated'. Zeus was a powerful war lord, who ran around screwing women, got pissed off at others, demanded offerings - he was not a moral example, nor did he demand morality. He was like a superhuman Chieftain. Zeus was the Donald Trump of religions. (Bad joke). Jesus wanted his followers to 'have faith and love one another' - and not necessarily make offerings, worry about money, or get too involved in rituals. All are equal before God, and are judged for their actions - not their power, money or social status. Yada, yada, yada. Nothing like the Zeusinator. There are really few if any theological similarities between Zeus and Jesus. They are 'far apart' on the religion scale :) "earning about the ancient Greek gods helps explaining a lot of weird Jewish and Christian stories. Also learning about the Mesopotamian and Egyptian gods and stories." Yes - some bits of narrative are similar, and the 'nativity' bit is a rather common theme in the era. But it's not about the 'magic tricks' :). Put another way: Greek pantheism is about the Greek Gods. Christianity is about the teachings of a man (or son of god, or god incarnate, depending on ...) And finally - a lot of formal Christian groups that do not believe Jesus was a God. That's been a big debate since the beginning i.e. Nicaeae etc. :)

acqq 10y ago
"I am" is said by Jesus seven times in the Gospel of John, that's more important for a Christian: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_am_(biblical_term) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_am_(biblical_term) > There are really few if any theological similarities between Zeus and Jesus. They are 'far apart' on the religion scale To properly compare you have to compare Yahweh, the god from Jewish scriptures (a.k.a the Old Testament for the Christians, for who Yahweh is a father-god) and Zeus, the Greek father god. Both are hungry for the animal sacrifices. The God personally visits Abraham who prepares a meal (freshly baked bread and flesh) for him and the God eats, under a tree. Not "transcendent" at all. For their children: Jesus, the son of the God and a human mother, and Heracles, the son of the God and a human mother. Heracles rises to Olympus as he dies, unlike the other mortals, just like Jesus rises to heaven. And both Jesus and Heracles visit Hades (Hell) only to get out of there: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrowing_of_Hell https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrowing_of_Hell Learning about the Greek gods is really enlightened. By the way, the name of the Jewish father-god is Yahweh, and "Jesus" comes from the Greek "Iesous" rendition of a Hebrew common name "Yehoshua" (Joshua) which means "Yahweh is salvation." Also a convenient element for the later "the father is also a son" idea. Only, there were a lot of Joshuas living around for more centuries.
- edblarney 10y ago
  "I am" - and - "I am that I am" are two different things. :) And yes, I agree - 'Yahweh' from Jewish antiquity is more comparable to Zeus, for sure. (Though Yahweh evolved a lot over time, and was something else by the time Jesus came) But you were comparing Jesus to Zeus. Those two are not very comparable. Zeus belongs in the Egyptian/Roman/Mesopotamian camp. a little bit like Yahweh. Jesus belongs more with Buddha, and Mohammed. The former were 'myths to believe that explained things', the later were 'historical figures' and 'teachers' of 'how we ought to be as moral and spiritual beings'. These are very different eras, different kinds of religions, is my whole point. FYI - that's why in 2016 there are tons of Buddhists, Muslims and Christians, and basically zero followers of 'Zeus'. Which further validates 'how different Jesus is to Zeus & Co'
  - 10y ago