I know you just listed some examples but I think many on HN place frameworks too highly. They're useful if they can make you more productive but many of the ite

I know you just listed some examples but I think many on HN place frameworks too highly. They're useful if they can make you more productive but many of the items they cover are not that difficult to substitute or attack from another angle. > Examples being history management and back button This is already built into the DOM API since HTML 5 (you can use hashes if you want to go old school as well). So you don't need any special library or framework to handle this for you. > state management (especially if you prefer immutability) Well, depends on what you mean by state management. Do you mean if you go forward and back the browser will reload what you already entered? The browser will keep state in some scenarios. In others it's simply storing it and reloading it. It's not like this is difficult or anything. Most frameworks require setting this up in various ways anyway. > server side rendering I would argue server side rendering is far easier without a framework. Without a framework you can load templates from the server side that have data already injected and ready to go. The JavaScript front end just deals with it.