5 ms·

Good for Anova but this acquisition doesn't make much sense to me. Unlike most culinary methods, there's no better and worse sous vide, all sous vide machines p

Good for Anova but this acquisition doesn't make much sense to me. Unlike most culinary methods, there's no better and worse sous vide, all sous vide machines produce the exact identical quality outcome. There's some minor differentiation when it comes to size, noise, apps etc. but they turn out to be not super important in practice. As Sous Vide becomes more popular, all of the existing players are going to get murdered by cheap, Chinese generics and there's no real room for profit in the market. The devices are incredibly simple and easy to manufacture and there's no defensive moat around any of the technology. There's the possibility of Anova branching out from SV into other related devices but it's unclear where it could head to justify the acquisition amount. They can either choose to pursue devices that are even more niche than SV (combi ovens, vacuum sealers, chamber vacuums, centrifuges, rotovaps) in the hopes that they become increasingly mainstream or they can go after more popular devices (microwaves, dishwashers, toaster ovens, blenders etc.) which are incredibly competitive fields filled with tough incumbents. Neither seems like an incredibly compelling choice or one I would stake an acquisition on. I'm glad the team has gotten this far and has been instrumental in pushing SV more into the mainstream but I don't see many bright prospects for their future.

krapht 10y ago
Never underestimate the power of marketing and branding in creating profit over generic competitors. See blenders: Ninja, Vitamix.
- MrBuddyCasino 10y ago
  Or: Thermomix, can be yours for the low, low price of 1199 €. Widely successful product. Also, apparently Anova stuff is "connected in a meaningful way" - sounds familiar?
  - shalmanese 10y ago
    All the current SV companies can see the writing on the wall and hope that they can avoid commodification via their proprietary app. Except that the problem is that Sous Vide is the ultimate open platform since each recipe only consists of two numbers, a temperature and a time. The apps aren't super useful in the first place and, even if they were, there's no meaningful way for the apps to provide lockin since you can never restrict a recipe to a single device.
  - Mikeb85 10y ago
    The Thermomix actually does (or did) something novel though. It does more than a Vitamix.
- shalmanese 10y ago
  Except that was marketing backed by genuine quality improvements. I don't doubt there will exist some high end sous vide machine that competes on looks and brand but it's destined to be a niche. Sous Vide is a market closer to colanders than blenders. There's a couple of ways you can make a colander wrong but there isn't any appreciable way you can make a colander that drains water better than your competitors. For the most part, people buy the cheapest colander that isn't obviously terrible and leave it at that. Nobody has become a colander mogul and made their fortune on branded colanders because all of them work about the same. And beside, if they wanted to compete on the pure brand side of the market, they bought the wrong company. Right now, Anova is the Samsung to Joule's Apple and they very much remain the market leader because they compete aggressively on price.
  - cr1895 10y ago
    >Sous Vide is a market closer to colanders than blenders. There's a couple of ways you can make a colander wrong but there isn't any appreciable way you can make a colander that drains water better than your competitors. For the most part, people buy the cheapest colander that isn't obviously terrible and leave it at that. Nobody has become a colander mogul and made their fortune on branded colanders because all of them work about the same. This is not a good comparison. There's a lot to be said of the reliability and quality of a sous-vide cooker, especially in a restaurant environment where if something goes wrong you get a lot of people sick instead of just yourself. The $120 Anova cookers are somewhat toy-like compared to the commercial-grade ones (see: PolyScience)
    - Terribledactyl 10y ago
      Unless you are cooking for >4 hours and within a few degrees of the pasteurization threshold, all you are compromising is the quality/consistency of the food. If you really need to ensure food safety, you're going to be using an external temp logger anyways. Honestly all the PolyScience gets you is capacity in water circulation and even then you're going to be limited more by the insulation capacity of the container.
      - 10y ago
Mikeb85 10y ago
The one advantage Electrolux has is branding, and they're in both home and professional kitchens. Maybe they're simply hoping for some goodwill? You are right though, sous vide machines all do basically the same thing, and there really is no differentiation. I recently bought a Sansaire device, and it does the exact same job as the Polyscience and the massive professional circulators I've used in restaurants.
verbify 10y ago
> there's no better and worse sous vide, all sous vide machines produce the exact identical quality outcome When I was planning to buy a sous vide machine, people had complaints about certain machines - e.g. that it only had a four hour timer after which it would switch off. The outcome might be the same, but the interfaces will be different. There are other features whereby they can differ (e.g. the clip). > all of the existing players are going to get murdered by cheap, Chinese generics If my sous vide machine doesn't work properly, e.g. it drops or cuts out the temperature, then I'll possibly get food poisoning. I'd prefer to trust a manufacturer who has a reputation to lose. Not to mention you have a mix of electricity, moving parts, heat and water - not something you want to play around with. There's also the complexity of the app. I might want it to hit a certain temperature, then drop to a lower temperature for a specific amount of time. Good UX/UI costs money.
- shalmanese 10y ago
  There are ways for a sous vide machine to be obviously terrible, sure. But those early teething issues have long been solved by now. All the machines on the market nowadays aren't obviously terrible (except Joule not having on-device controls) and there's very little that differentiates them on a day to day use basis. As the tech becomes more mature, more and more of those factors are going to simply be assumed. Also, 3 decades of SV experience has shown us that there isn't any complexity in practice to SV recipes. 99% of SV recipes are 2 numbers (temperature and time) and the other 1% is 3 numbers (cook temp, cook time and hold temp). There's no magic hyper complex SV recipe that we haven't discovered yet and not for lack of trying.
tekacs 10y ago
I imagine their 'connected device' pedigree might be the driving factor behind the acquisition? That is to say their producing 'Internet of Things' hardware and software for the kitchen that's more than just a gimmick? Their app has guides built in, so it's the beginning of an ecosystem, if they were able to push it hard enough? Presumably it wouldn't be surprising to see Electrolux or the intact Anova brand bring this to other devices, though of course sous vide with its long cooking times and hands-off approach is probably amongst the most well suited to this approach.
the-dude 10y ago
It is not about better or worse. It is about creating / enlarging a market.
- shalmanese 10y ago
  All the early American VCR makers did a wonderful job enlarging the market only to be subsequently murdered by cheaper Japanese machines.
Arnt 10y ago
Sounds as if Electrolux is betting that Anova is another Dyson.
pdpi 10y ago
> there's no better and worse sous vide, all sous vide machines produce the exact identical quality outcome. Factors that might affect the quality of the meal: — How good is the thermostat? Is the temperature both precise and stable? — How good is the circulation? Are there are any hotspots in the water? Less concerned about the quality of the food, but still relevant differentiating factors: — How easy is it to setup? — How easy is it to clean? — How safe is it? How well insulated are the components? — How durable is it? Will it last me 6 months or 10 years?
- shalmanese 10y ago
  All the thermostats are good enough and all the circulation is good enough. these are both established, mature technologies that are available at commodified prices. The non-food quality factors still allow for some degree of differentiation but they turn out to be not huge in practice. At the end of the day, price reigns supreme and it's a commodity market.

krapht 10y ago

Never underestimate the power of marketing and branding in creating profit over generic competitors. See blenders: Ninja, Vitamix.

MrBuddyCasino 10y ago
Or: Thermomix, can be yours for the low, low price of 1199 €. Widely successful product. Also, apparently Anova stuff is "connected in a meaningful way" - sounds familiar?
- shalmanese 10y ago
  All the current SV companies can see the writing on the wall and hope that they can avoid commodification via their proprietary app. Except that the problem is that Sous Vide is the ultimate open platform since each recipe only consists of two numbers, a temperature and a time. The apps aren't super useful in the first place and, even if they were, there's no meaningful way for the apps to provide lockin since you can never restrict a recipe to a single device.
- Mikeb85 10y ago
  The Thermomix actually does (or did) something novel though. It does more than a Vitamix.
shalmanese 10y ago
Except that was marketing backed by genuine quality improvements. I don't doubt there will exist some high end sous vide machine that competes on looks and brand but it's destined to be a niche. Sous Vide is a market closer to colanders than blenders. There's a couple of ways you can make a colander wrong but there isn't any appreciable way you can make a colander that drains water better than your competitors. For the most part, people buy the cheapest colander that isn't obviously terrible and leave it at that. Nobody has become a colander mogul and made their fortune on branded colanders because all of them work about the same. And beside, if they wanted to compete on the pure brand side of the market, they bought the wrong company. Right now, Anova is the Samsung to Joule's Apple and they very much remain the market leader because they compete aggressively on price.
- cr1895 10y ago
  >Sous Vide is a market closer to colanders than blenders. There's a couple of ways you can make a colander wrong but there isn't any appreciable way you can make a colander that drains water better than your competitors. For the most part, people buy the cheapest colander that isn't obviously terrible and leave it at that. Nobody has become a colander mogul and made their fortune on branded colanders because all of them work about the same. This is not a good comparison. There's a lot to be said of the reliability and quality of a sous-vide cooker, especially in a restaurant environment where if something goes wrong you get a lot of people sick instead of just yourself. The $120 Anova cookers are somewhat toy-like compared to the commercial-grade ones (see: PolyScience)
  - Terribledactyl 10y ago
    Unless you are cooking for >4 hours and within a few degrees of the pasteurization threshold, all you are compromising is the quality/consistency of the food. If you really need to ensure food safety, you're going to be using an external temp logger anyways. Honestly all the PolyScience gets you is capacity in water circulation and even then you're going to be limited more by the insulation capacity of the container.
    - 10y ago

Mikeb85 10y ago

The one advantage Electrolux has is branding, and they're in both home and professional kitchens. Maybe they're simply hoping for some goodwill? You are right though, sous vide machines all do basically the same thing, and there really is no differentiation. I recently bought a Sansaire device, and it does the exact same job as the Polyscience and the massive professional circulators I've used in restaurants.

verbify 10y ago

> there's no better and worse sous vide, all sous vide machines produce the exact identical quality outcome When I was planning to buy a sous vide machine, people had complaints about certain machines - e.g. that it only had a four hour timer after which it would switch off. The outcome might be the same, but the interfaces will be different. There are other features whereby they can differ (e.g. the clip). > all of the existing players are going to get murdered by cheap, Chinese generics If my sous vide machine doesn't work properly, e.g. it drops or cuts out the temperature, then I'll possibly get food poisoning. I'd prefer to trust a manufacturer who has a reputation to lose. Not to mention you have a mix of electricity, moving parts, heat and water - not something you want to play around with. There's also the complexity of the app. I might want it to hit a certain temperature, then drop to a lower temperature for a specific amount of time. Good UX/UI costs money.

shalmanese 10y ago
There are ways for a sous vide machine to be obviously terrible, sure. But those early teething issues have long been solved by now. All the machines on the market nowadays aren't obviously terrible (except Joule not having on-device controls) and there's very little that differentiates them on a day to day use basis. As the tech becomes more mature, more and more of those factors are going to simply be assumed. Also, 3 decades of SV experience has shown us that there isn't any complexity in practice to SV recipes. 99% of SV recipes are 2 numbers (temperature and time) and the other 1% is 3 numbers (cook temp, cook time and hold temp). There's no magic hyper complex SV recipe that we haven't discovered yet and not for lack of trying.

tekacs 10y ago

I imagine their 'connected device' pedigree might be the driving factor behind the acquisition? That is to say their producing 'Internet of Things' hardware and software for the kitchen that's more than just a gimmick? Their app has guides built in, so it's the beginning of an ecosystem, if they were able to push it hard enough? Presumably it wouldn't be surprising to see Electrolux or the intact Anova brand bring this to other devices, though of course sous vide with its long cooking times and hands-off approach is probably amongst the most well suited to this approach.

the-dude 10y ago

It is not about better or worse. It is about creating / enlarging a market.

shalmanese 10y ago
All the early American VCR makers did a wonderful job enlarging the market only to be subsequently murdered by cheaper Japanese machines.

Arnt 10y ago

Sounds as if Electrolux is betting that Anova is another Dyson.

pdpi 10y ago

> there's no better and worse sous vide, all sous vide machines produce the exact identical quality outcome. Factors that might affect the quality of the meal: — How good is the thermostat? Is the temperature both precise and stable? — How good is the circulation? Are there are any hotspots in the water? Less concerned about the quality of the food, but still relevant differentiating factors: — How easy is it to setup? — How easy is it to clean? — How safe is it? How well insulated are the components? — How durable is it? Will it last me 6 months or 10 years?

shalmanese 10y ago
All the thermostats are good enough and all the circulation is good enough. these are both established, mature technologies that are available at commodified prices. The non-food quality factors still allow for some degree of differentiation but they turn out to be not huge in practice. At the end of the day, price reigns supreme and it's a commodity market.