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"the country is being literally, fucked, by Russia and the West on the other side as some neo-proxy war circa 1960" Not sure I'd put both Russia and the West o

"the country is being literally, fucked, by Russia and the West on the other side as some neo-proxy war circa 1960" Not sure I'd put both Russia and the West on the same level here, Russia literally invaded and annexed parts of Ukraine. It sucks though I assume a lot of the appeal to Westerners visiting Ukraine is they are effectively much richer than back home.

pmalynin 10y ago
You are, of course, right; But the blame is on both sides. Russia, UK, and US signed the Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances. When the time came to pay the Piper...everyone chickened out and essentially allowed Russia to show aggression unchecked.
- afterburner 10y ago
  You're not wrong, but I'm not sure how else it could have turned out. War between the US and Russia has been avoided for a reason. Perhaps if they were a part of NATO, which carries the serious threat of equating an attack on any member as an attack against all members. But of course everything Russia has done in Ukraine over the last 10 years has been in an effort to stop any remote chance of Ukrainian membership in NATO, to avoid that very problem. Some blame NATO expansion as "triggering" Russia, but honestly, what does Russia expect after occupying Eastern Europe for 50 years. Those Eastern European countries don't want a return to that. Harsh, autocratic Soviet policies guaranteed antagonism.
mc32 10y ago
I think the thinking is Russia wants Sebastopol as a navy port on the black sea to counteract Nato --as well as Putin having to act tough in order to have the Russian people on his side. Russia is somewhat nationalistic and the people are loath to see them suffer further deterioration to the image of a relatively strong Russia. It's basically the only card he has to play. So from a geopolitical standpoint, they are kind of between a rock and a hard place. The west wants to sanction Russia and Russia wants to show it is still a formidable force as well as needs to have a deep water port in the black sea.
- PerfectDlite 10y ago
  Please don't repeat Russian propaganda. Before Crimea invasion Russia already had deep water port in the Black Sea - Novorossiysk.

pmalynin 10y ago

You are, of course, right; But the blame is on both sides. Russia, UK, and US signed the Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances. When the time came to pay the Piper...everyone chickened out and essentially allowed Russia to show aggression unchecked.

afterburner 10y ago
You're not wrong, but I'm not sure how else it could have turned out. War between the US and Russia has been avoided for a reason. Perhaps if they were a part of NATO, which carries the serious threat of equating an attack on any member as an attack against all members. But of course everything Russia has done in Ukraine over the last 10 years has been in an effort to stop any remote chance of Ukrainian membership in NATO, to avoid that very problem. Some blame NATO expansion as "triggering" Russia, but honestly, what does Russia expect after occupying Eastern Europe for 50 years. Those Eastern European countries don't want a return to that. Harsh, autocratic Soviet policies guaranteed antagonism.

mc32 10y ago

I think the thinking is Russia wants Sebastopol as a navy port on the black sea to counteract Nato --as well as Putin having to act tough in order to have the Russian people on his side. Russia is somewhat nationalistic and the people are loath to see them suffer further deterioration to the image of a relatively strong Russia. It's basically the only card he has to play. So from a geopolitical standpoint, they are kind of between a rock and a hard place. The west wants to sanction Russia and Russia wants to show it is still a formidable force as well as needs to have a deep water port in the black sea.

PerfectDlite 10y ago
Please don't repeat Russian propaganda. Before Crimea invasion Russia already had deep water port in the Black Sea - Novorossiysk.