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Five things: 1. We are taxed on income heavily in the US. 2. Insurance is expensive here. 3. In the hubs, rent is very expensive. Take-home pay after consid

Five things: 1. We are taxed on income heavily in the US. 2. Insurance is expensive here. 3. In the hubs, rent is very expensive. Take-home pay after considering these three things is a lot less than you might think. And also: 4. Generalizing the salary of positions across the whole US is misleading. An average engineering job in the midwest or outside of a hub can pay half the salary of SF or NYC. 5. It really depends (1) where the company you're considering is based and (2) if it's a remote gig, whether they adjust your comp based on your location. One example of this is Buffer's extremely transparent salary calculator [1]. The holy grail is to geoarbitrage by getting paid by a company in a location that pays highly while living remotely somewhere the cost of living is much lower. [1]: https://buffer.com/salary https://buffer.com/salary

tropo 10y ago
Income tax varies quite a bit, and you have lots of control over it. You can completely avoid state income tax: Texas, Florida, New Hampshire, Alaska... You can chop down the federal income tax quite a bit. For example, you could have a dozen kids. For most software developers, that eliminates the income tax. So, there you go. Zero income tax.
Veen 10y ago
> The holy grail is to geoarbitrage by getting paid by a company in a location that pays highly while living remotely somewhere the cost of living is much lower. Yes. I work remotely for a US company, and live in Hungary. I'm British. It's a great arrangement. Hungary is a modern country but much less expensive than the U.K.
- wyclif 10y ago
  I also work remotely for a US company, but live in the Philippines right now. It's quite inexpensive to live here on the US dollar. Now, the big difference between your situation and mine is that I'm in a developing country that is struggling to become modern in the sense you're referring to and that developers are accustomed to. So I pay a premium for fiber internet fast enough to enable remote work, and I'm healthy and don't need maintenance-level health care. I wouldn't want to do this if my children were college age, if I were retirement age, or someone in my family had persistent health issues. But for right now, it's great. Especially for those who enjoy island hopping and beach bumming.
  - Veen 10y ago
    I think the infrastructure is a major reason to choose Eastern Europe. Internet speeds are actually better than they are in the U.K. I spent six weeks in Morocco last spring and it was a constant struggle to find consistent connectivity. Healthcare is another reason: as a U.K. Citizen, I get free healthcare anyway, and that extends for most treatments to EU counties too. When I do have to pay for medical treatment, it's fast and low cost. I had to have a wisdom tooth removed and I was dealt with in a couple of hours at midnight on a weekend. Cost less than $150 including painkillers and antibiotics.
    - wyclif 10y ago
      Your comment about internet speed is interesting. Why do you think it's faster in Eastern Europe than in the UK?
alimw 10y ago
> 1. We are taxed on income heavily in the US. I was surprised at this so I looked it up. From the article [1] it looks as if income tax in the US is lower than in most of Europe. But yes, higher than Russia, Saudi Arabia or Mexico. [1] http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-26327114 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-26327114
- Broken_Hippo 10y ago
  To be fair, though, that tax includes the health care. At least in Norway, anyway, and many countries on the list. And to me, it makes a huge difference. Some folks in the midwest pay about as much per month on health insurance as they do on rent: It isn't a minor expense. Even with employer-subsidized insurance, it is easily a few hundred per month, plus they have to pay the deductible before it kicks in. $5,000 after the monthly fee when you make 50k per year is quite the expectation. (the deductible is 10% of your income at that point).
- tedmiston 10y ago
  There are a couple issues with that article. 1. "For each country, they calculated how much a high earner on a salary of $400,000..." That number is way higher than programmer salaries. Most programmers are high earners but not that high. 2. It assumes a constant salary amount in any country, but this isn't reality. If someone makes $250k as a programmer in the US, it might equate to $100k–125k in another country. US tax rates are tiered (see "Marginal Tax Rate" at [1]), so someone that makes $250k pays more than double the taxes of $125k. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_tax_in_the_United_States#Marginal_tax_rates_for_2017 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_tax_in_the_United_State...
  - alimw 10y ago
    If you scroll down a bit further, you should find that both your points are addressed in the second set of figures. US tax rates looking even lower there.
    - tedmiston 10y ago

tropo 10y ago

Income tax varies quite a bit, and you have lots of control over it. You can completely avoid state income tax: Texas, Florida, New Hampshire, Alaska... You can chop down the federal income tax quite a bit. For example, you could have a dozen kids. For most software developers, that eliminates the income tax. So, there you go. Zero income tax.

Veen 10y ago

> The holy grail is to geoarbitrage by getting paid by a company in a location that pays highly while living remotely somewhere the cost of living is much lower. Yes. I work remotely for a US company, and live in Hungary. I'm British. It's a great arrangement. Hungary is a modern country but much less expensive than the U.K.

wyclif 10y ago
I also work remotely for a US company, but live in the Philippines right now. It's quite inexpensive to live here on the US dollar. Now, the big difference between your situation and mine is that I'm in a developing country that is struggling to become modern in the sense you're referring to and that developers are accustomed to. So I pay a premium for fiber internet fast enough to enable remote work, and I'm healthy and don't need maintenance-level health care. I wouldn't want to do this if my children were college age, if I were retirement age, or someone in my family had persistent health issues. But for right now, it's great. Especially for those who enjoy island hopping and beach bumming.
- Veen 10y ago
  I think the infrastructure is a major reason to choose Eastern Europe. Internet speeds are actually better than they are in the U.K. I spent six weeks in Morocco last spring and it was a constant struggle to find consistent connectivity. Healthcare is another reason: as a U.K. Citizen, I get free healthcare anyway, and that extends for most treatments to EU counties too. When I do have to pay for medical treatment, it's fast and low cost. I had to have a wisdom tooth removed and I was dealt with in a couple of hours at midnight on a weekend. Cost less than $150 including painkillers and antibiotics.
  - wyclif 10y ago
    Your comment about internet speed is interesting. Why do you think it's faster in Eastern Europe than in the UK?

alimw 10y ago

> 1. We are taxed on income heavily in the US. I was surprised at this so I looked it up. From the article [1] it looks as if income tax in the US is lower than in most of Europe. But yes, higher than Russia, Saudi Arabia or Mexico. [1] http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-26327114 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-26327114

Broken_Hippo 10y ago
To be fair, though, that tax includes the health care. At least in Norway, anyway, and many countries on the list. And to me, it makes a huge difference. Some folks in the midwest pay about as much per month on health insurance as they do on rent: It isn't a minor expense. Even with employer-subsidized insurance, it is easily a few hundred per month, plus they have to pay the deductible before it kicks in. $5,000 after the monthly fee when you make 50k per year is quite the expectation. (the deductible is 10% of your income at that point).
tedmiston 10y ago
There are a couple issues with that article. 1. "For each country, they calculated how much a high earner on a salary of $400,000..." That number is way higher than programmer salaries. Most programmers are high earners but not that high. 2. It assumes a constant salary amount in any country, but this isn't reality. If someone makes $250k as a programmer in the US, it might equate to $100k–125k in another country. US tax rates are tiered (see "Marginal Tax Rate" at [1]), so someone that makes $250k pays more than double the taxes of $125k. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_tax_in_the_United_States#Marginal_tax_rates_for_2017 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_tax_in_the_United_State...
- alimw 10y ago
  If you scroll down a bit further, you should find that both your points are addressed in the second set of figures. US tax rates looking even lower there.
  - tedmiston 10y ago