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This is the same line of thinking that is allowing the NSA to get away with mass surveillance programs and not having every single employee (or at least the hig

This is the same line of thinking that is allowing the NSA to get away with mass surveillance programs and not having every single employee (or at least the high ranking ones) locked up for decades for what are obvious rights violations on a mass scale. Case in point - you choose to do business with your cell phone provider. The general assumption is that they inherently know your location to provide you service (through triangulation and general connectivity to their cell towers). The government took that and then asserted a random claim saying they had a right to that information. That's literally what the federal judge said - that the government had a right to that private data agreement between you and your cell provider, without a warrant. So our privacy was stolen from us and when it finally came out what they were really doing and the scope of it all, people were shocked but half accepted it as the cost of doing business in the digital age. That's a lazy argument because the constitution expressly forbids such activity - "search and seizure", with seizure being the operative word here. Then they expanded this claim to include email and all private, non-public communications on social media as well.

pdimitar 10y ago
NSA and the likes rely on the judicial precedent effect, and the generational effect. I am 36. When I talk to people between 20 and 25 I am shocked to find out they find the whole spying thing pretty normal. They are kind of born into a world where this is already the norm. And we know that most people never challenge the rules of the environment they were born into, not until they turn at least 30 (more often 35-40 IMO) anyway. Between their claim of "well, things have always been that way" (since they're too young to remember other times) and "I have nothing to hide so I don't care", I'd say NSA and Co. are winning crushingly.
- vm 10y ago
  What a powerful point. Thanks for making it -- you've shifted my perspective.
  - pdimitar 10y ago
    If you're sarcastic -- damn you're good! If you're not sarcastic -- you're welcome.
    - vm 10y ago
      haha it was legit.
- turc1656 10y ago
  Yes, you are absolutely right about this. And it's a sad situation. Which is why it is up to us (the 30+ old timers, lol) to take a stand and demand our rights and the law be respected. Throughout the history of this country, people have fought and died to protect our freedoms. For this, we don't even need a physical fight. We just need to collectively take a stand to demand that the rule of law means something, or that they need to take the proper course of action and amend the constitution so that what they are doing is legal. I refuse to accept this middle ground where they violate the law and aren't shut down and prosecuted even when it's discovered.
  - pdimitar 10y ago
    That's a powerful motivation and I fully stand behind it -- in theory anyway. But what about in practice? How do we fight exactly? NSA has shown time and again they don't care about ethics or even the law. Hell, they are well-connected enough to make the secret courts legal! You can receive a very particular phone call and/or email right now, and you can spend the rest of your life in a jail if you uttered a word about it. Large organizations that suck data en masse will change something ONLY if they cannot suck data en masse anymore, it's as simple as that. For that, we need mass education which actually works -- and people who actually care. History is not on our side for now. Most people prefer the short-term dopamine brain injection provided by the current infrastructure and they won't lift a finger to change anything. I am playing the Devil's Advocate here but it also reflects my beliefs. If I was born f.ex. in 1960 I'd probably be able to join the fight as it was starting. Nowadays the fight seem to be over and we seem to have lost. As a person born in 1980 and being way too busy to fight for survival and decent human existence well until only 4-5 years ago, I feel I am arriving at the scene way too late.

pdimitar 10y ago

NSA and the likes rely on the judicial precedent effect, and the generational effect. I am 36. When I talk to people between 20 and 25 I am shocked to find out they find the whole spying thing pretty normal. They are kind of born into a world where this is already the norm. And we know that most people never challenge the rules of the environment they were born into, not until they turn at least 30 (more often 35-40 IMO) anyway. Between their claim of "well, things have always been that way" (since they're too young to remember other times) and "I have nothing to hide so I don't care", I'd say NSA and Co. are winning crushingly.

vm 10y ago
What a powerful point. Thanks for making it -- you've shifted my perspective.
- pdimitar 10y ago
  If you're sarcastic -- damn you're good! If you're not sarcastic -- you're welcome.
  - vm 10y ago
    haha it was legit.
turc1656 10y ago
Yes, you are absolutely right about this. And it's a sad situation. Which is why it is up to us (the 30+ old timers, lol) to take a stand and demand our rights and the law be respected. Throughout the history of this country, people have fought and died to protect our freedoms. For this, we don't even need a physical fight. We just need to collectively take a stand to demand that the rule of law means something, or that they need to take the proper course of action and amend the constitution so that what they are doing is legal. I refuse to accept this middle ground where they violate the law and aren't shut down and prosecuted even when it's discovered.
- pdimitar 10y ago
  That's a powerful motivation and I fully stand behind it -- in theory anyway. But what about in practice? How do we fight exactly? NSA has shown time and again they don't care about ethics or even the law. Hell, they are well-connected enough to make the secret courts legal! You can receive a very particular phone call and/or email right now, and you can spend the rest of your life in a jail if you uttered a word about it. Large organizations that suck data en masse will change something ONLY if they cannot suck data en masse anymore, it's as simple as that. For that, we need mass education which actually works -- and people who actually care. History is not on our side for now. Most people prefer the short-term dopamine brain injection provided by the current infrastructure and they won't lift a finger to change anything. I am playing the Devil's Advocate here but it also reflects my beliefs. If I was born f.ex. in 1960 I'd probably be able to join the fight as it was starting. Nowadays the fight seem to be over and we seem to have lost. As a person born in 1980 and being way too busy to fight for survival and decent human existence well until only 4-5 years ago, I feel I am arriving at the scene way too late.