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Since when is Google the only ads and analytics provider everyone uses? Ooops, that's why AMP was made in the first place.

by tdkl 10y ago

ehsankia 10y ago
Here's a list of analytics services they support with currently over 30 different ones: https://www.ampproject.org/docs/reference/components/amp-analytics#analytics-vendors https://www.ampproject.org/docs/reference/components/amp-ana... Similarly, here's a list of supported ad-networks with almost a 100: https://www.ampproject.org/docs/reference/components/amp-ad#supported-ad-networks https://www.ampproject.org/docs/reference/components/amp-ad#... Far from being Google only.
- andy_ppp 10y ago
  I'm looking to provide website integrations including analysis for publishers in a new way that AMP doesn't support. Embrace and extend really screws up my idea here.
- elsewhen 10y ago
  The fact that there's a list means that some are not on it, which means that there is a gatekeeper. I think we need to pick our poison: an open web with a potentially degraded experience. Or speed-optimized but closed. I for one choose the former because it's precisely the openness that made/makes the web great, and to me that trumps speed and convenience.
  - shostack 10y ago
    This. What is the process to be added? Does Google have sole control to approve and revoke access to that list? Does it place an unreasonable burden on ad tech startups that might one day be viable competitors to Google's own offering? How much will it hinder FB and their attempts at rolling out a GDN competitor?
    - cramforce 10y ago
      8 pull requests for new ad networks were submitted and approved in the last week alone. I'd say the answer to your question is: no.
      - shostack 10y ago
        While that is great to hear, that doesn't fully address the questions and concerns I raised.
        cramforce 10y ago
        Maybe it doesn't, but it is hard to give somebody who just shoots out rhetorical questions hard data on each one. I invite you to hangout on the open source project for a while and make your own impression.
        shostack 10y ago
        Do I recall correctly that you are a Googler working on AMP? Or am I mistaken? Regardless, the questions were hardly rhetorical--I'd really like to know, and the other responder answered some of the questions with answers that confirmed some of my concerns. Don't get me wrong...I think parts of what Google is doing here are solid and admirable. Publishers screwed the pooch and something had to give. But that doesn't mean Google gets a free pass on the strategic pieces of this they are clearly trying to set up and what they've done to date. The questions are valid and if you feel they are unwarranted concerns, I'd love to learn why you think the concerns are overrated.
    - callahad 10y ago
      Speaking solely as a skeptical third-party: > What is the process to be added? 1. Sign a Contributor License Agreement granting relevant copyright and patent licenses to Google so they can redistribute your contributions to AMP. You also give Google an unrestricted right to use those patents and copyrights in any of its projects, not just AMP. 2. For ad networks, submit a pull request according to /ads/README.md 3. For analytics providers, submit a pull request according to /extensions/amp-analytics/integrating-analytics.md > Does Google have sole control to approve and revoke access to that list? Yes, though this is not disclosed on the roster, every member of AMP's governance board is a Google employee: https://www.ampproject.org/contribute/governance/ https://www.ampproject.org/contribute/governance/ Issue 5846 requests disclosing employer affiliations: https://github.com/ampproject/amphtml/issues/5846 https://github.com/ampproject/amphtml/issues/5846 > Does it place an unreasonable burden on ad tech startups that might one day be viable competitors to Google's own offering? The work of the pull request does not seem particularly burdensome, however, if AMP successfully replaces the Web, then it may be prohibitively difficult for new startups to gain enough traction to merit inclusion in AMP's whitelist. > How much will it hinder FB and their attempts at rolling out a GDN competitor? AMP's legal and design constraints may limit Facebook's ability to innovate in that space, however, I'd be shocked if Google excluded Facebook from the amp-ad whitelist. The AMP project has been very willing to accept pull requests from established ad networks. They also provide a bespoke amp-facebook tag for embedding Facebook content within AMP documents, so there's some indication of cooperation.
  - magicalist 10y ago
    > The fact that there's a list means that some are not on it, which means that there is a gatekeeper. It's not a whitelist, those are just the pre-written supported analytics packages. Scroll up on that page. It sends configurable requests to an HTTPS endpoint based on the configuration you provide. Meanwhile you can write a PR to get your pre-configured service added to the list: https://github.com/ampproject/amphtml/blob/master/extensions/amp-analytics/integrating-analytics.md#adding-your-configuration-to-the-amp-html-runtime https://github.com/ampproject/amphtml/blob/master/extensions... I don't touch AMP and this was seriously like 10 seconds of searching.
  - tornadoboy55 10y ago
    I would love for Google to be a gatekeeper of all ads. Malware, flashing banners etc. would all vanish overnight.
  - tornadoboy55 10y ago
    I would love for Google to be a gatekeeper of all ads. Malware, flashing banners etc. would all vanish overnight.

Since when is Google the only ads and analytics provider everyone uses? Ooops, that's why AMP was made in the first place.

by tdkl 10y ago

Since when is Google the only ads and analytics provider everyone uses? Ooops, that's why AMP was made in the first place.

ehsankia 10y ago

Here's a list of analytics services they support with currently over 30 different ones: https://www.ampproject.org/docs/reference/components/amp-analytics#analytics-vendors https://www.ampproject.org/docs/reference/components/amp-ana... Similarly, here's a list of supported ad-networks with almost a 100: https://www.ampproject.org/docs/reference/components/amp-ad#supported-ad-networks https://www.ampproject.org/docs/reference/components/amp-ad#... Far from being Google only.

andy_ppp 10y ago
I'm looking to provide website integrations including analysis for publishers in a new way that AMP doesn't support. Embrace and extend really screws up my idea here.
elsewhen 10y ago
The fact that there's a list means that some are not on it, which means that there is a gatekeeper. I think we need to pick our poison: an open web with a potentially degraded experience. Or speed-optimized but closed. I for one choose the former because it's precisely the openness that made/makes the web great, and to me that trumps speed and convenience.
- shostack 10y ago
  This. What is the process to be added? Does Google have sole control to approve and revoke access to that list? Does it place an unreasonable burden on ad tech startups that might one day be viable competitors to Google's own offering? How much will it hinder FB and their attempts at rolling out a GDN competitor?
  - cramforce 10y ago
    8 pull requests for new ad networks were submitted and approved in the last week alone. I'd say the answer to your question is: no.
    - shostack 10y ago
      While that is great to hear, that doesn't fully address the questions and concerns I raised.
      - cramforce 10y ago
        Maybe it doesn't, but it is hard to give somebody who just shoots out rhetorical questions hard data on each one. I invite you to hangout on the open source project for a while and make your own impression.
        shostack 10y ago
        Do I recall correctly that you are a Googler working on AMP? Or am I mistaken? Regardless, the questions were hardly rhetorical--I'd really like to know, and the other responder answered some of the questions with answers that confirmed some of my concerns. Don't get me wrong...I think parts of what Google is doing here are solid and admirable. Publishers screwed the pooch and something had to give. But that doesn't mean Google gets a free pass on the strategic pieces of this they are clearly trying to set up and what they've done to date. The questions are valid and if you feel they are unwarranted concerns, I'd love to learn why you think the concerns are overrated.
  - callahad 10y ago
    Speaking solely as a skeptical third-party: > What is the process to be added? 1. Sign a Contributor License Agreement granting relevant copyright and patent licenses to Google so they can redistribute your contributions to AMP. You also give Google an unrestricted right to use those patents and copyrights in any of its projects, not just AMP. 2. For ad networks, submit a pull request according to /ads/README.md 3. For analytics providers, submit a pull request according to /extensions/amp-analytics/integrating-analytics.md > Does Google have sole control to approve and revoke access to that list? Yes, though this is not disclosed on the roster, every member of AMP's governance board is a Google employee: https://www.ampproject.org/contribute/governance/ https://www.ampproject.org/contribute/governance/ Issue 5846 requests disclosing employer affiliations: https://github.com/ampproject/amphtml/issues/5846 https://github.com/ampproject/amphtml/issues/5846 > Does it place an unreasonable burden on ad tech startups that might one day be viable competitors to Google's own offering? The work of the pull request does not seem particularly burdensome, however, if AMP successfully replaces the Web, then it may be prohibitively difficult for new startups to gain enough traction to merit inclusion in AMP's whitelist. > How much will it hinder FB and their attempts at rolling out a GDN competitor? AMP's legal and design constraints may limit Facebook's ability to innovate in that space, however, I'd be shocked if Google excluded Facebook from the amp-ad whitelist. The AMP project has been very willing to accept pull requests from established ad networks. They also provide a bespoke amp-facebook tag for embedding Facebook content within AMP documents, so there's some indication of cooperation.
- magicalist 10y ago
  > The fact that there's a list means that some are not on it, which means that there is a gatekeeper. It's not a whitelist, those are just the pre-written supported analytics packages. Scroll up on that page. It sends configurable requests to an HTTPS endpoint based on the configuration you provide. Meanwhile you can write a PR to get your pre-configured service added to the list: https://github.com/ampproject/amphtml/blob/master/extensions/amp-analytics/integrating-analytics.md#adding-your-configuration-to-the-amp-html-runtime https://github.com/ampproject/amphtml/blob/master/extensions... I don't touch AMP and this was seriously like 10 seconds of searching.
- tornadoboy55 10y ago
  I would love for Google to be a gatekeeper of all ads. Malware, flashing banners etc. would all vanish overnight.
- tornadoboy55 10y ago
  I would love for Google to be a gatekeeper of all ads. Malware, flashing banners etc. would all vanish overnight.