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The point is that if you try to prevent pricing of goods, you get a) pricing by other means, often more inflexible, b) underinvestment and underproduction, c) d

The point is that if you try to prevent pricing of goods, you get a) pricing by other means, often more inflexible, b) underinvestment and underproduction, c) departure of the wealthy through other markets. The problem with road pricing is usually not the pricing per se, but rather, that the government bodies doing the pricing just apply the revenues to something totally unrelated, breaking the connection between services and revenue. Road pricing can work if it is actually used for maintaining and building the road network - a genuine pay-for-service model.

marssaxman 10y ago
Like I said, I don't actually care how rational it all might be in economic terms. I'm not willing to allow rich people to pay for more privileges than they already have, even if we might all be better off as a result. They have too many privileges already. So, exactly as ZeroGravitas was saying, it's clear that my reaction is really about inequality and not about highway congestion management. Fix the inequality problem and I'd probably start feeling more OK about tolling proposals.
- snrplfth 10y ago
  >Like I said, I don't actually care how rational it all might be in economic terms. I'm not willing to allow rich people to pay for more privileges than they already have, even if we might all be better off as a result. Cool, we'll just do envy-based policy then. That'll work.
  - marssaxman 10y ago
    It's not envy; it's more like resentment. There's something wrong with a system producing such outcomes; lacking the power to change the fundamental character of that system, I fall back on refusing to cooperate with it. I'm not really advocating that other people should adopt this point of view; I'm simply observing the fact that I have been responding this way, as further supporting evidence for ZeroGravitas' suggestion about surge pricing.
  - ZeroGravitas 10y ago
    For an example which isn't envy based, see the performers who fight against ticket touts and reselling. Again, my nerdy economics answer is to bid up the price of the tickets so that the people who really want to go pay more and all that extra profit goes to the performer. Yet, they explicitly fight against this, to their own detriment, because they don't want only the rich to be able to buy their tickets. (I still think my solution has potential. Reserve some small amount of tickets for people with lots of money to buy at short notice. Don't make them Vips or anything, just convienient for busy people and to undercut touts reselling the standard tickets.)

marssaxman 10y ago

Like I said, I don't actually care how rational it all might be in economic terms. I'm not willing to allow rich people to pay for more privileges than they already have, even if we might all be better off as a result. They have too many privileges already. So, exactly as ZeroGravitas was saying, it's clear that my reaction is really about inequality and not about highway congestion management. Fix the inequality problem and I'd probably start feeling more OK about tolling proposals.

snrplfth 10y ago
>Like I said, I don't actually care how rational it all might be in economic terms. I'm not willing to allow rich people to pay for more privileges than they already have, even if we might all be better off as a result. Cool, we'll just do envy-based policy then. That'll work.
- marssaxman 10y ago
  It's not envy; it's more like resentment. There's something wrong with a system producing such outcomes; lacking the power to change the fundamental character of that system, I fall back on refusing to cooperate with it. I'm not really advocating that other people should adopt this point of view; I'm simply observing the fact that I have been responding this way, as further supporting evidence for ZeroGravitas' suggestion about surge pricing.
- ZeroGravitas 10y ago
  For an example which isn't envy based, see the performers who fight against ticket touts and reselling. Again, my nerdy economics answer is to bid up the price of the tickets so that the people who really want to go pay more and all that extra profit goes to the performer. Yet, they explicitly fight against this, to their own detriment, because they don't want only the rich to be able to buy their tickets. (I still think my solution has potential. Reserve some small amount of tickets for people with lots of money to buy at short notice. Don't make them Vips or anything, just convienient for busy people and to undercut touts reselling the standard tickets.)