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I'm well aware of inspectdb and migrations. The OP however stated that he didn't want to use an ORM. And what if you need to support composite primary keys ? T

I'm well aware of inspectdb and migrations. The OP however stated that he didn't want to use an ORM. And what if you need to support composite primary keys ? The ticket on that is 5 years old with no fix in sight: http://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/373 http://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/373 Frankly, the more I've used Django the more I've run up against it's limits. One of these limits is that the apps such as auth and admin are tightly coupled to the ORM and template engine. I've given my experiences with different frameworks, the pluses and minuses of each. It's up to the original poster to decide naturally. However, yet again any criticism of the One Holy Web Framework brings ad hominem arguments and angry rebuttals.

alnayyir 16y ago
>I'm well aware of inspectdb and migrations. The OP however stated that he didn't want to use an ORM. That part I missed, my bad. >And what if you need to support composite primary keys ? The ticket on that is 5 years old with no fix in sight: If it were me? I'd patch it myself. I've patched django for local use only multiple times because when I looked at the relevant ticket, they refused a fix. I've no love for the politics of the project itself. >Frankly, the more I've used Django the more I've run up against it's limits. One of these limits is that the apps such as auth and admin are tightly coupled to the ORM and template engine. If you're straining against it that much, I wouldn't even necessarily bother with using SQLAlchemy, it can be rather painful at times. I'd just use nodejs or http://wiki.github.com/defnull/bottle/ http://wiki.github.com/defnull/bottle/ with an amalgamation of preferred tools. >I've given my experiences with different frameworks, the pluses and minuses of each. It's up to the original poster to decide naturally. That's pretty much what I said. >However, yet again any criticism of the One Holy Web Framework brings ad hominem arguments and angry rebuttals. Cut the martyr bullshit. It's a technical decision, not a chance for you to air your ego.
- zeemonkee 16y ago
  Why patch Django when SQLAlchemy supports it out of the box ? Out of interest, what do you find painful about SQLAlchemy ? It's admittedly not as easy to use "out of the box" as Django ORM, but the payback is the flexibility. Why would I want to use node.js ? I'm quite comfortable in Python, and don't feel the need to abandon it just because I don't want to use Django. And I did recommend Werkzeug and its amalgamation of tools. > Cut the martyr bullshit. It's a technical decision, not a chance for you to air your ego. Air my ego ? WTF ? I've just noticed how sensitive Django fanboys are to even the slightest criticism, and will go out of their way to justify its shortcomings. It just gets annoying. It's just a framework FFS with its advantages and disadvantages. Don't get me wrong - Django's not that bad; it just that some projects suit it better than others. EDIT: not calling you a fanboy personally, but there is a noticeable rise of fanboyism in Django that reminds me of Rails a few years ago. Let's both try and keep the discussion both technical and friendly.
  - alnayyir 16y ago
    >I've just noticed how sensitive Django fanboys are to even the slightest criticism The generalizations are the problem here. Stop it >It's admittedly not as easy to use "out of the box" as Django ORM, but the payback is the flexibility. You could say that of assembler. I'm of the opinion that if you're going to suffer SQLAlchemy, you might as well use something else entirely. Without the kind of integration Django offers, you might as well deal with the database on its own terms. I can't even be bothered to respond to the rest of this. I'm not in the mood to feed the troll today, not on hackerne.ws
    - zeemonkee 16y ago
      Of course you go on about how painful SQLAlchemy is without any specifics, throw in a statement about "Without the kind of integration Django offers, you might as well deal with the database on its own terms" and accuse me of trolling....

alnayyir 16y ago

>I'm well aware of inspectdb and migrations. The OP however stated that he didn't want to use an ORM. That part I missed, my bad. >And what if you need to support composite primary keys ? The ticket on that is 5 years old with no fix in sight: If it were me? I'd patch it myself. I've patched django for local use only multiple times because when I looked at the relevant ticket, they refused a fix. I've no love for the politics of the project itself. >Frankly, the more I've used Django the more I've run up against it's limits. One of these limits is that the apps such as auth and admin are tightly coupled to the ORM and template engine. If you're straining against it that much, I wouldn't even necessarily bother with using SQLAlchemy, it can be rather painful at times. I'd just use nodejs or http://wiki.github.com/defnull/bottle/ http://wiki.github.com/defnull/bottle/ with an amalgamation of preferred tools. >I've given my experiences with different frameworks, the pluses and minuses of each. It's up to the original poster to decide naturally. That's pretty much what I said. >However, yet again any criticism of the One Holy Web Framework brings ad hominem arguments and angry rebuttals. Cut the martyr bullshit. It's a technical decision, not a chance for you to air your ego.

zeemonkee 16y ago
Why patch Django when SQLAlchemy supports it out of the box ? Out of interest, what do you find painful about SQLAlchemy ? It's admittedly not as easy to use "out of the box" as Django ORM, but the payback is the flexibility. Why would I want to use node.js ? I'm quite comfortable in Python, and don't feel the need to abandon it just because I don't want to use Django. And I did recommend Werkzeug and its amalgamation of tools. > Cut the martyr bullshit. It's a technical decision, not a chance for you to air your ego. Air my ego ? WTF ? I've just noticed how sensitive Django fanboys are to even the slightest criticism, and will go out of their way to justify its shortcomings. It just gets annoying. It's just a framework FFS with its advantages and disadvantages. Don't get me wrong - Django's not that bad; it just that some projects suit it better than others. EDIT: not calling you a fanboy personally, but there is a noticeable rise of fanboyism in Django that reminds me of Rails a few years ago. Let's both try and keep the discussion both technical and friendly.
- alnayyir 16y ago
  >I've just noticed how sensitive Django fanboys are to even the slightest criticism The generalizations are the problem here. Stop it >It's admittedly not as easy to use "out of the box" as Django ORM, but the payback is the flexibility. You could say that of assembler. I'm of the opinion that if you're going to suffer SQLAlchemy, you might as well use something else entirely. Without the kind of integration Django offers, you might as well deal with the database on its own terms. I can't even be bothered to respond to the rest of this. I'm not in the mood to feed the troll today, not on hackerne.ws
  - zeemonkee 16y ago
    Of course you go on about how painful SQLAlchemy is without any specifics, throw in a statement about "Without the kind of integration Django offers, you might as well deal with the database on its own terms" and accuse me of trolling....