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Of all of the political candidates, only Trump and Sanders spoke out against H1-B visa abuse used to depress wages. (Former) Presidential Candidate Senator Mar

Of all of the political candidates, only Trump and Sanders spoke out against H1-B visa abuse used to depress wages. (Former) Presidential Candidate Senator Marco Rubio of Florida wanted to triple the number of H1-B visas to 250,000 from 85,000 and accepted $2 million donation from Disney. Disney of Florida had recently replaced 250 US IT workers with foreigners on H1-B. Trump especially spoke out against this move. Clinton was silent. Clinton accepted $675,000 from Goldman for 3 talks. Wall Street banks like Goldman hire lots of high tech computer programmers and it is in their interest to depress wages as well as those firms in Silicon Valley. Trump was right that Clinton was bought off (she could have donated the $675,000 for charity as President Obama did with his Nobel Peace Prize Award money). Incidentally, HP head and Republican Meg Whitman came out against Trump and she mentioned other reasons, but her true motivation is that HP would have to start paying market wages for all of its high tech workers if Trump won.

valuearb 10y ago
The "depressing wages" point is dumb. These engineers will still be part of the labor pool, they'll just be doing work for our foreign competitors. And HP can still hire them, do you want them to just open up more space in Bangalore, or would you rather those wages go to US based locations? And it's not a zero sum game. One of my H!B hires had unduplicatable skills and created about 20 high paid jobs in our company. Other H1B hires enabled a contracting firm I worked for to get a large contract that kept 7 other people employed.
- davidf18 10y ago
  Did you read the article? Many tech jobs can't be done effectively in India or overseas with low quality labor for any number of reasons. The 250 American workers for Disney had their jobs replaced in the US, not by overseas workers. > "These engineers will still be part of the labor pool, they'll just be doing work for our foreign competitors" Well, let them work for Samsung instead of Apple then. > "One of my H!B hires had unduplicatable skills and created about 20 high paid jobs in our company." The point of the H1-B visa is precisely for those cases where there are no Americans that can do the job, so your hire follows the law. But then if it such a hard to find job, then the scarcity implies the person should get a higher salary, especially if he/she created "20 high paid jobs for our company."
  - valuearb 10y ago
    Letting them work for Samsung lowers our standard of living.
    - mjolk 10y ago
      Please explain.
- jlarocco 10y ago
  > One of my H!B hires had unduplicatable skills and created about 20 high paid jobs in our company. That type of thing was the original intention, and I think most people would be okay with that. But a gigantic majority of H1Bs are not used to fill positions that require unique skills. If 99.9% of H1Bs are abusing the system to avoid paying market wages then the system is broken and it needs to be fixed.
- wvenable 10y ago
  > do you want them to just open up more space in Bangalore Yes. We have higher wages for our higher standard of living. As you said, it's not a zero sum game and all things are not equal.
- Chris2048 10y ago
  > One of my H!B hires had unduplicatable skills and created about 20 high paid jobs in our company Can you give details so it can be judged if this is true, and if so how common/relevant it is?
  - valuearb 10y ago
    He was a japanese physicist, lost his job when Supercollider project canceled. Instead of going back to Japan, I was able to hire him as lead graphics engineer on a Macintosh imaging product, he was super creative in developing unique graphics effects and his product became our biggest and most profitable. The company grew to 140 employees, his team was 20, but it's reasonable to think about a quarter of the workforce was tied to it given it was about a quarter of our revenues.
    - Chris2048 10y ago
      Sounds like an excellent use of H1B; but I'm sure it's not a common one.
    - rubberstamp 10y ago
      Was he making as much as an American? Also did he get huge bonus for the excellent work he did?
    - chrishacken 10y ago
      So how much were you paying him? (Last week?) there was an article about someone trying to double the H1B minimum wage to $140k; surely if this physicist is as important as you say he is, you were compensating him around that figure, no?
- theflork 10y ago
  and someone like this smart person in your example would now be highly unlikely to get an h1b visa with the current lottery system. once you introduce a lottery, it's no longer about hard to find skills, it's about how can you churn out most applications to win most visas. i'll be looking for the elimination of the lottery system in any proposed fixes.
dlp211 10y ago
> Clinton accepted $675,000 from Goldman for 3 talks. So what? That is what people with her credentials are worth on the speaking circuit. God forbid someone get paid what they are worth, what do you think this is, a meritocracy? > she could have donated the $675,000 for charity as President Obama did with his Nobel Peace Prize Award money The Clinton's donated over $15MM to charity over the course of 2008-2015 and paid over 40% of their income as taxes. I'm pretty sure they've done more to help people than you (the average you, for all I know you're Bill Gates) or I ever will.
- reddytowns 10y ago
  The mob boss who donates to the orphanage is still the mob boss.
- davidf18 10y ago
  >> Clinton accepted $675,000 from Goldman for 3 talks. > So what? That is what people with her credentials are worth on the speaking circuit. God forbid someone get paid what they are worth, what do you think this is, a meritocracy? $675,000 for 3 talks to Goldman leaves many with the implication that Clinton was "bought" by Goldman, whether true or not (and how to prove that?). It gave both Sanders (who asked that Clinton dispose the contents of the 3 talks which she never did but which Wikileaks eventually did do) and Trump significant ammunition against Clinton in the campaign. If you are running for President, esp as a Democrat, it is unwise to accept money like that from Goldman or Wall Street. She could have said when she accepted each payment from Goldman that she was donating that money to charity so as not to leave people, potential voters, with the impression that she was "bought." Perceptions matter and as someone who came from a family that ran multiple times for President (3 times prior to this election) she should have known better.
waynehall 10y ago
As someone who is solidly for this move, it is a bit silly to point out Clinton accepting money from Goldman for 3 talks when Trump literally puts wall street and others in his cabinet. Broken clock is right twice a day...
klipt 10y ago
> Clinton accepted $675,000 from Goldman for 3 talks Okay, I get it, Clinton bad etc. But Trump has appointed tons of people from Goldman to his administration[1] and filed an executive order against financial industry regulations[2] - you know the regulations put in place after the last Wall Street crash, to prevent a similar crash? Can we stop pretending that Trump isn't bought off by Goldman now? [1] http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/trump-adds-goldman-sachs-executive-administration-article-1.2944943 http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/trump-adds-goldman-... [2] https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2017/02/03/presidential-memorandum-fiduciary-duty-rule https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2017/02/03/presi... https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2017/02/03/presidential-executive-order-core-principles-regulating-united-states https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2017/02/03/presi...
- IgorPartola 10y ago
  Not a Trump fan at all here, but technically I think it's more the other way around. Trump is buying up Goldman, rather than they buying him. I have yet to see a clear line of influence from Goldman to Trump personally. It seems more like he's hiring old buddies for potential future favors from them. Reverse lobbying! You heard it here first!
  - kemiller 10y ago
    How is giving Goldman people government positions buying them if not by giving them the power to set rules as they like? It's not like they are in it for the cushy gov't benefits.
    - IgorPartola 10y ago
      I am saying the causality here is backwards (I think). It is not the case that Goldman did something for Trump so now he has to make these appointments. It is that he is giving them these appointments so they return the favor in the future. I think he is doing this for future business needs after he is done being president, but I am sure it could be any number of other reasons.
    - 10y ago
lern_too_spel 10y ago
Clinton proposed automatically giving H1Bs a green card, which would have removed them from indentured servitude. Your narrative ignores the actual policy.
- mavelikara 10y ago
  > Clinton proposed automatically giving H1Bs a green card, When? Her proposal, as reported in the media was, "'staple' green cards on STEM grads' diplomas". Was there other proposal she made specifically addressing H-1Bs?
  - davidf18 10y ago
    > Her proposal, as reported in the media was, "'staple' green cards on STEM grads' diplomas". Well, that's a terrible idea if she said that. She apparently wanted to depress STEM wages in the US and put Americans STEM workers, who worked very hard for their degrees and skill out of work. The green card, H1-B should only be given for STEM jobs for which there is no American. So Clinton wanted to depress STEM wages and take STEM jobs away from Americans and Trump wanted STEM workers to be treated fairly.
    - lern_too_spel 10y ago
      It does the exact opposite by making employers pay at least as much for an H1B as for an equivalent local worker. You're suggesting that they not even be allowed into the country, which would incentivize American companies to set up their campuses in other countries that take a more liberal view to immigration.
sjg007 10y ago
I agree wages are depressed but how do you know Meg Whitman's true motivation?

valuearb 10y ago

The "depressing wages" point is dumb. These engineers will still be part of the labor pool, they'll just be doing work for our foreign competitors. And HP can still hire them, do you want them to just open up more space in Bangalore, or would you rather those wages go to US based locations? And it's not a zero sum game. One of my H!B hires had unduplicatable skills and created about 20 high paid jobs in our company. Other H1B hires enabled a contracting firm I worked for to get a large contract that kept 7 other people employed.

davidf18 10y ago
Did you read the article? Many tech jobs can't be done effectively in India or overseas with low quality labor for any number of reasons. The 250 American workers for Disney had their jobs replaced in the US, not by overseas workers. > "These engineers will still be part of the labor pool, they'll just be doing work for our foreign competitors" Well, let them work for Samsung instead of Apple then. > "One of my H!B hires had unduplicatable skills and created about 20 high paid jobs in our company." The point of the H1-B visa is precisely for those cases where there are no Americans that can do the job, so your hire follows the law. But then if it such a hard to find job, then the scarcity implies the person should get a higher salary, especially if he/she created "20 high paid jobs for our company."
- valuearb 10y ago
  Letting them work for Samsung lowers our standard of living.
  - mjolk 10y ago
    Please explain.
jlarocco 10y ago
> One of my H!B hires had unduplicatable skills and created about 20 high paid jobs in our company. That type of thing was the original intention, and I think most people would be okay with that. But a gigantic majority of H1Bs are not used to fill positions that require unique skills. If 99.9% of H1Bs are abusing the system to avoid paying market wages then the system is broken and it needs to be fixed.
wvenable 10y ago
> do you want them to just open up more space in Bangalore Yes. We have higher wages for our higher standard of living. As you said, it's not a zero sum game and all things are not equal.
Chris2048 10y ago
> One of my H!B hires had unduplicatable skills and created about 20 high paid jobs in our company Can you give details so it can be judged if this is true, and if so how common/relevant it is?
- valuearb 10y ago
  He was a japanese physicist, lost his job when Supercollider project canceled. Instead of going back to Japan, I was able to hire him as lead graphics engineer on a Macintosh imaging product, he was super creative in developing unique graphics effects and his product became our biggest and most profitable. The company grew to 140 employees, his team was 20, but it's reasonable to think about a quarter of the workforce was tied to it given it was about a quarter of our revenues.
  - Chris2048 10y ago
    Sounds like an excellent use of H1B; but I'm sure it's not a common one.
  - rubberstamp 10y ago
    Was he making as much as an American? Also did he get huge bonus for the excellent work he did?
  - chrishacken 10y ago
    So how much were you paying him? (Last week?) there was an article about someone trying to double the H1B minimum wage to $140k; surely if this physicist is as important as you say he is, you were compensating him around that figure, no?
theflork 10y ago
and someone like this smart person in your example would now be highly unlikely to get an h1b visa with the current lottery system. once you introduce a lottery, it's no longer about hard to find skills, it's about how can you churn out most applications to win most visas. i'll be looking for the elimination of the lottery system in any proposed fixes.

dlp211 10y ago

> Clinton accepted $675,000 from Goldman for 3 talks. So what? That is what people with her credentials are worth on the speaking circuit. God forbid someone get paid what they are worth, what do you think this is, a meritocracy? > she could have donated the $675,000 for charity as President Obama did with his Nobel Peace Prize Award money The Clinton's donated over $15MM to charity over the course of 2008-2015 and paid over 40% of their income as taxes. I'm pretty sure they've done more to help people than you (the average you, for all I know you're Bill Gates) or I ever will.

reddytowns 10y ago
The mob boss who donates to the orphanage is still the mob boss.
davidf18 10y ago
>> Clinton accepted $675,000 from Goldman for 3 talks. > So what? That is what people with her credentials are worth on the speaking circuit. God forbid someone get paid what they are worth, what do you think this is, a meritocracy? $675,000 for 3 talks to Goldman leaves many with the implication that Clinton was "bought" by Goldman, whether true or not (and how to prove that?). It gave both Sanders (who asked that Clinton dispose the contents of the 3 talks which she never did but which Wikileaks eventually did do) and Trump significant ammunition against Clinton in the campaign. If you are running for President, esp as a Democrat, it is unwise to accept money like that from Goldman or Wall Street. She could have said when she accepted each payment from Goldman that she was donating that money to charity so as not to leave people, potential voters, with the impression that she was "bought." Perceptions matter and as someone who came from a family that ran multiple times for President (3 times prior to this election) she should have known better.

waynehall 10y ago

As someone who is solidly for this move, it is a bit silly to point out Clinton accepting money from Goldman for 3 talks when Trump literally puts wall street and others in his cabinet. Broken clock is right twice a day...

klipt 10y ago

> Clinton accepted $675,000 from Goldman for 3 talks Okay, I get it, Clinton bad etc. But Trump has appointed tons of people from Goldman to his administration[1] and filed an executive order against financial industry regulations[2] - you know the regulations put in place after the last Wall Street crash, to prevent a similar crash? Can we stop pretending that Trump isn't bought off by Goldman now? [1] http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/trump-adds-goldman-sachs-executive-administration-article-1.2944943 http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/trump-adds-goldman-... [2] https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2017/02/03/presidential-memorandum-fiduciary-duty-rule https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2017/02/03/presi... https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2017/02/03/presidential-executive-order-core-principles-regulating-united-states https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2017/02/03/presi...

IgorPartola 10y ago
Not a Trump fan at all here, but technically I think it's more the other way around. Trump is buying up Goldman, rather than they buying him. I have yet to see a clear line of influence from Goldman to Trump personally. It seems more like he's hiring old buddies for potential future favors from them. Reverse lobbying! You heard it here first!
- kemiller 10y ago
  How is giving Goldman people government positions buying them if not by giving them the power to set rules as they like? It's not like they are in it for the cushy gov't benefits.
  - IgorPartola 10y ago
    I am saying the causality here is backwards (I think). It is not the case that Goldman did something for Trump so now he has to make these appointments. It is that he is giving them these appointments so they return the favor in the future. I think he is doing this for future business needs after he is done being president, but I am sure it could be any number of other reasons.
  - 10y ago

lern_too_spel 10y ago

Clinton proposed automatically giving H1Bs a green card, which would have removed them from indentured servitude. Your narrative ignores the actual policy.

mavelikara 10y ago
> Clinton proposed automatically giving H1Bs a green card, When? Her proposal, as reported in the media was, "'staple' green cards on STEM grads' diplomas". Was there other proposal she made specifically addressing H-1Bs?
- davidf18 10y ago
  > Her proposal, as reported in the media was, "'staple' green cards on STEM grads' diplomas". Well, that's a terrible idea if she said that. She apparently wanted to depress STEM wages in the US and put Americans STEM workers, who worked very hard for their degrees and skill out of work. The green card, H1-B should only be given for STEM jobs for which there is no American. So Clinton wanted to depress STEM wages and take STEM jobs away from Americans and Trump wanted STEM workers to be treated fairly.
  - lern_too_spel 10y ago
    It does the exact opposite by making employers pay at least as much for an H1B as for an equivalent local worker. You're suggesting that they not even be allowed into the country, which would incentivize American companies to set up their campuses in other countries that take a more liberal view to immigration.

sjg007 10y ago

I agree wages are depressed but how do you know Meg Whitman's true motivation?