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If they are going to be part of the global economy then they need to accept the terms of the global economy. Yea their practices are mainly harming western coun

by gph 10y ago

If they are going to be part of the global economy then they need to accept the terms of the global economy. Yea their practices are mainly harming western countries at this point, but in the future maybe it's India or Singapore that has the lead in these areas. Would you think it's alright for China to do it then? Like it or not the global capitalist economy has to be built with some form of protection for content and IP producers. I fail to see how China's model is the 'right way of looking at things'. In fact if we all acted like China I'm guessing the global economy would collapse.

Juliate 10y ago
"If they are going to be part of the global economy then they need to accept the terms of the global economy." This is an absolutely marvelous way of looking at things. For once, it ignores that the "global economy" may profit a lot from revising its own terms (especially regarding copyright/IP). Or that the "global economy" is more like the interests of the few powerful ones who say what it is.
- gph 10y ago
  Sure there are theoretically better ways of doing things. If there are theoretically better ways of distributing food does that mean I get to go rob a grocery store? You can't flaunt the rules and regulations of world trade because you disagree with them or want to change them. Besides that's not what China wants. China wants to eat its cake and have it too. Edit: Wow looks like it's ok to lie, cheat, and steal because "the other guy does it and I think the system is unjust on top of that." Really spectacular arguments from the anti-establishment crowd.
  - izacus 10y ago
    And so does USA, EU and others. Isn't that how foreign diplomacy and trade works? Steal, murder, take what you can, behave well only when someone forces you to? Because from current perspective I can't seem to find a reason why China would back down and let their own economy be taken over by western companies, when protectionism works well for them and their manufacturing is holding the world world by the proverbial balls. It's the tactic USA employed mercilessly (and still does) to get the best position - forcing everyone else to drop their rules to trade with them. Of course, now when China does it it's suddenly a problem, because Facebook, Google and others can't monopolize their market and transfer money to their offshore accounts? :)
    - gph 10y ago
      >Steal, murder, take what you can, behave well only when someone forces you to? And the US is forcing China to. I'm not trying to hold one side up as some kind of moral victor. Yea China's doing the same thing the US would in their position. This isn't some kind of moral equivalency contest. Your post is the equivalent of Trump excusing Putins behavior because the US has done some pretty bad stuff too.
  - Juliate 10y ago
    No one's talking about robbing physical goods or food. Copyright & IP matter to wildly different beasts: ideas. And there are way more practical better ways of dealing with those than strict locked down control over it. It's not black & white. Now, we're drifting. My point was: it's normal, acceptable and even desirable to contest and discuss the way cough "everyone" do things, especially when two parties trade. That's how they may all progress. Going to force, or to war, as too many here seem to suggest (and I just can't believe I read this), solves nothing: it destroys the problem with a long-lived lie (that violence can solve anything) and creates new, larger ones.
    - gph 10y ago
      Are you even having the same conversation as me? You are so into your anti-IP/DRM mindset its blinding you to the basic principle I'm getting at. I don't give a shit what you think about the current Copyright or IP laws we have in international trade. In fact I think the current system is stupid. BUT that doesn't mean China gets to unilaterally ignore them because it's beneficial for them. The same way I can't unilaterally ignore our laws on theft just because I think the system of distributing food is wrong. IF China wants to change the rules then they need to do that through the WTO. They decided to join in order to gain access to the global market. If they can't follow those rules then they need to be stopped or kicked out because it's causing serious issues within the global economy, issues that are leading some people to talk about war.

by gph 10y ago

Juliate 10y ago

"If they are going to be part of the global economy then they need to accept the terms of the global economy." This is an absolutely marvelous way of looking at things. For once, it ignores that the "global economy" may profit a lot from revising its own terms (especially regarding copyright/IP). Or that the "global economy" is more like the interests of the few powerful ones who say what it is.

gph 10y ago
Sure there are theoretically better ways of doing things. If there are theoretically better ways of distributing food does that mean I get to go rob a grocery store? You can't flaunt the rules and regulations of world trade because you disagree with them or want to change them. Besides that's not what China wants. China wants to eat its cake and have it too. Edit: Wow looks like it's ok to lie, cheat, and steal because "the other guy does it and I think the system is unjust on top of that." Really spectacular arguments from the anti-establishment crowd.
- izacus 10y ago
  And so does USA, EU and others. Isn't that how foreign diplomacy and trade works? Steal, murder, take what you can, behave well only when someone forces you to? Because from current perspective I can't seem to find a reason why China would back down and let their own economy be taken over by western companies, when protectionism works well for them and their manufacturing is holding the world world by the proverbial balls. It's the tactic USA employed mercilessly (and still does) to get the best position - forcing everyone else to drop their rules to trade with them. Of course, now when China does it it's suddenly a problem, because Facebook, Google and others can't monopolize their market and transfer money to their offshore accounts? :)
  - gph 10y ago
    >Steal, murder, take what you can, behave well only when someone forces you to? And the US is forcing China to. I'm not trying to hold one side up as some kind of moral victor. Yea China's doing the same thing the US would in their position. This isn't some kind of moral equivalency contest. Your post is the equivalent of Trump excusing Putins behavior because the US has done some pretty bad stuff too.
- Juliate 10y ago
  No one's talking about robbing physical goods or food. Copyright & IP matter to wildly different beasts: ideas. And there are way more practical better ways of dealing with those than strict locked down control over it. It's not black & white. Now, we're drifting. My point was: it's normal, acceptable and even desirable to contest and discuss the way cough "everyone" do things, especially when two parties trade. That's how they may all progress. Going to force, or to war, as too many here seem to suggest (and I just can't believe I read this), solves nothing: it destroys the problem with a long-lived lie (that violence can solve anything) and creates new, larger ones.
  - gph 10y ago
    Are you even having the same conversation as me? You are so into your anti-IP/DRM mindset its blinding you to the basic principle I'm getting at. I don't give a shit what you think about the current Copyright or IP laws we have in international trade. In fact I think the current system is stupid. BUT that doesn't mean China gets to unilaterally ignore them because it's beneficial for them. The same way I can't unilaterally ignore our laws on theft just because I think the system of distributing food is wrong. IF China wants to change the rules then they need to do that through the WTO. They decided to join in order to gain access to the global market. If they can't follow those rules then they need to be stopped or kicked out because it's causing serious issues within the global economy, issues that are leading some people to talk about war.